State of the far left

[In Bloom]

at this thread

http://www.riff-raff.se/en/furtherreading/on_org.php

"In its external relations, the political gang tends to mask the existence of the clique, since it must seduce in order to recruit. It adorns itself in a veil of modesty so as to increase its power. When the gang appeals to external elements through journals, reviews, and leaflets, it thinks that it has to speak on the level of the mass in order to be understood. It talks about the immediate because it wants to mediate. Considering everyone outside the gang an imbecile, it feels obliged to publish banalities and bullshit so as to successfully seduce them. In the end, it seduces itself by its own bullshit and it is thereby absorbed by the surrounding milieu. However, another gang will take its place, and its first theoretical wailings will consist of attributing every misdeed and mistake to those who have preceded it, looking in this way for a new language so as to begin again the grand practice of seduction; in order to seduce, it has to appear to be different from the others."

 

[rauscher]

That would be "Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist)"

I think I remember the CPB(ML) from the 1970's - they had one member in Birmingham. Apparently he had spent some time in prison. At his trial he refused to recognise the judge's authority. The judge told him, 'you may not recognise my authority but you must recognise my power' and added another year onto his sentence.

Upon being set free he spent most of his time attempting to pursuade the local anti-fascist committee to adopt his worthy but unfortunately completely unchantable slogans.

Of course it may all have been a dream.

 

[Geoff Collier]

Nope, the IBT in Britain have 8 members.

As for the smallest the Revolutionary Democratic Group must be in the running, consisting of the mercurial Steve Freeman and occasionally his mate from Merseyside.

At the December 2001 conference of the Socialist Alliance (the one where the Socialist Party walked out) I saw about six people distributing RDG leaflets. However, there used to be a two-person strong Trotskyist Unity Group but I think they might have split.

geoff c

 

[Azrael23]

LMAO Are you telling me I have more people sat in hall watching 9/11 docus over the course of a week than the UK socialist party has members....

Thats brilliant.

The entire political specrum is false, I think a lot of people already see that and hence won`t be drawn into the constant bickering and playground mentality of the so called "progressives".

 

[Anotherfolky]

At the December 2001 conference of the Socialist Alliance (the one where the Socialist Party walked out) I saw about six people distributing RDG leaflets. However, there used to be a two-person strong Trotskyist Unity Group but I think they might have split.

geoff c

That reminds me what happened to the earlier split from Workers Power that was linked to their New Zealand group (about 98 I think it was), they had a few articles in the very shortlived Workers Republic (I think that was its name) split from the ISG before it merged with the WIL but otherwise seem to have vanished?

 

[The Black Hand]

Not actually going to make any kind of argument then?

The argument earlier on this thread we have different positions upon, 'i think good', 'you think bad' regarding J18, Wombles, Maydays etc.

I really can't be bothered to argue with you cos of your track record, I'm not interested in you or your 'ideas'...

Sorry bruv, but that's the way it is.

 

[neprimerimye]

At the December 2001 conference of the Socialist Alliance (the one where the Socialist Party walked out) I saw about six people distributing RDG leaflets. However, there used to be a two-person strong Trotskyist Unity Group but I think they might have split.

geoff c

One of the Phils is now around the Critique project of founding a new Marxist Party.

 

[neprimerimye]

That reminds me what happened to the earlier split from Workers Power that was linked to their New Zealand group (about 98 I think it was), they had a few articles in the very shortlived Workers Republic (I think that was its name) split from the ISG before it merged with the WIL but otherwise seem to have vanished?

The 'split' from Workers Power the LCMRCI was esssentially one person who has now dropped out of politics. As for the CRR split from the ISG they seem still to be active in Workers Action the continuation of the WIL.

 

[Anotherfolky]

The 'split' from Workers Power the LCMRCI was esssentially one person who has now dropped out of politics. As for the CRR split from the ISG they seem still to be active in Workers Action the continuation of the WIL.

Oh thats right then the WIL split as well, and three of them went off to produce (not actually that bad) very short lived paper (Worker's something or other) before vanishing.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I have been reliably informed that Socialist Appeall is around the 180/200 mark.

Only if they've adopted the SWP's methods of counting, or if they are counting a load of totally inactive Militant nostalgics who may have put their name on some sheet somewhere. In terms of members who take part in any kind of activity 60 was a very generous estimation, going on my (limited) personal experience, and their own website reports.

 

[neprimerimye]

Oh thats right then the WIL split as well, and three of them went off to produce (not actually that bad) very short lived paper (Worker's something or other) before vanishing.

Workers Fight. London based. It was dreadful. They split.

The majority have since moved to Scotland one of them was an SSP candidate last time out of the gates.

 

[Geoff Collier]

Oh thats right then the WIL split as well, and three of them went off to produce (not actually that bad) very short lived paper (Worker's something or other) before vanishing.

That was called Workers Fight. Not to be confused with the British supporters of Lutte Ouvrier who publish(ed) leaflets under that name. I haven't seen the latter for a while but they were probably the last group to use typewriter, stencil and a hand-turned duplicator in case they couldn't pay the electricity bill. Or maybe they were just ready in case the power station workers went on strike.

geoff

 

[Anotherfolky]

Workers Fight. London based. It was dreadful. They split.

The majority have since moved to Scotland one of them was an SSP candidate last time out of the gates.

They split ?
Geez there was only three of them in the first place, as I recall one of them (who joined with the CRR people) was a refugee from the WRP so he was probably an old adversary of some of the people in the WIL/Workers Action.

 

[Anotherfolky]

Oh and then was the Posadas group (old middle class couple?) based in the East Midlands somewhere, they must have given up by now....

 

[Philbc03]

At the December 2001 conference of the Socialist Alliance (the one where the Socialist Party walked out) I saw about six people distributing RDG leaflets. However, there used to be a two-person strong Trotskyist Unity Group but I think they might have split.

geoff c

They're still together thought the TUG may not formally exist. Both the Phils were at the CNWP conference and made broadly similar points.

And no, Phil Walden didn't introduce himself as Doctor.

 

[In Bloom]

The argument earlier on this thread we have different positions upon, 'i think good', 'you think bad' regarding J18, Wombles, Maydays etc.

I really can't be bothered to argue with you cos of your track record, I'm not interested in you or your 'ideas'...

Sorry bruv, but that's the way it is.

Fine, whatever.

If you want to look an awful lot like you're facing an intellectual light weight like me in a debate, go ahead

 

[neprimerimye]

That was called Workers Fight. Not to be confused with the British supporters of Lutte Ouvrier who publish(ed) leaflets under that name. I haven't seen the latter for a while but they were probably the last group to use typewriter, stencil and a hand-turned duplicator in case they couldn't pay the electricity bill. Or maybe they were just ready in case the power station workers went on strike.

geoff

They still put out cyclostyled workplace bulletins Geoff. And linked to Lutte Ouvriere.

 

[neprimerimye]

They split ?
Geez there was only three of them in the first place, as I recall one of them (who joined with the CRR people) was a refugee from the WRP so he was probably an old adversary of some of the people in the WIL/Workers Action.

All three of them learned their politics in the WRP hence the catastrophism of their paper. One of them has altogther passed through the WRP, Workers Power, RIL, WIL and Workers Fight. Oly the other day he posted a piece on Lebanon which he claimed was the only real Marxist analysis of the situation there and as important as the works of Lenin and Trotsky. He was, of course, the author of said article.

 

[rauscher]

Okay, nobody has mentioned him yet so I will. What's the one man faction Ian Donovan up to? Has he split himself in two yet and if not why not? I must admit to having read every page of 'Revolution And Truth' (squeezed in between the IBT and the CPGB, imagine!) and was hoping a second edition might appear soon.

 

[neprimerimye]

Okay, nobody has mentioned him yet so I will. What's the one man faction Ian Donovan up to? Has he split himself in two yet and if not why not? I must admit to having read every page of 'Revolution And Truth' (squeezed in between the IBT and the CPGB, imagine!) and was hoping a second edition might appear soon.

There were two editions and a pamphlet I think. Theres a web site you can check. The copgb link to it or did.

 

[fanciful]

for those that are interested, there's a selection of articles from the WP PR faction fight here:
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/pr/

largely economic analysis and on the period.

 

[rauscher]

There were two editions and a pamphlet I think. Theres a web site you can check. The copgb link to it or did.

You are right - there were two editions and also a pamphlet series of one.

I particularly enjoyed the 'International Relay Chat Log(Extract) - 20th March 1998'

Has anyone else read this?

Still, my question remains. It's been seven long years since the last edition. Will we ever see another?

 

[rauscher]

for those that are interested, there's a selection of articles from the WP PR faction fight here:
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/pr/

largely economic analysis and on the period.

We have established on another thread that you and I do not see eye to eye on anything but I've just taken a quick look at the website and must congratulate you on a very good idea - you may though engage more people by posing questions on concrete issues (related to the theoretical questions you want to debate) rather than by making statements of principal.

 

[fanciful]

on anything!!!
still cheers, and yes but its early days.

 

[junius]

You are right - there were two editions and also a pamphlet series of one.

I particularly enjoyed the 'International Relay Chat Log(Extract) - 20th March 1998'

Has anyone else read this?

Still, my question remains. It's been seven long years since the last edition. Will we ever see another?

He now has his own blog. So far the only argument's he's picked are with himself.

 

[rauscher]

He now has his own blog. So far the only argument's he's picked are with himself.

I knew he could do it! One person, two factions (or maybe more).

Does anyone remember a comedian called Marty Wilde and the sketch about the man with hands of a demented circus clown. The hands have a life of their own and break eggs on his head and so on.

This is an obscure reference I know but when I read about Ian D's blog I was immediately reminded of it.

Anyway, I thought the CPGB's letters page was Ian's private blog.

 

[JoePolitix]

for those that are interested, there's a selection of articles from the WP PR faction fight here:
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/pr/

largely economic analysis and on the period.

Permant Revolution was also the name of a faction within the Spartacist League that were expelled and formed the internationalist group in the early 90's. History tends to repeat itself with trot sects, almost always as farce.

Has anybody got a link for the Donovan blog. I do enjoy his polemics

 

[mk12]

christ that website seems to be stuck in 1938.

For this to happen, a new revolutionary vanguard must be forged. This vanguard requires a conscious strategic plan, a programme and a working class vanguard party.

Who speaks like that today?

 

[rauscher]

christ that website seems to be stuck in 1938.



Who speaks like that today?

You are right, but in principal the idea of posting all your ideas/documents as discussion topics seems a good one - who knows, maybe in time they will learn to express themselves in modern English.

 

[fanciful]

well true some of the docs are from the archive, not to say there's anything wrong with the idea however.