State of the far left

[Divisive Cotton]

To use your card-holding criteria Nigel -- I think the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World) in Britain has just under 200 members although its figures have not yet been posted on the Certification Officer website (http://www.certoffice.org/links/index.cfm?action=display&strLetter=i&strType=T&showActive=1) - a failure on the Quango's behalf rather than the IWW I would guess, as they are unusually open about their (albeit modest) level of support.

Any idea which is the smallest, but still functioning (ie minimally produces newsheet at least bi-annually) group in Britain?
In the 1980s there used to be a Marxist-Leninst group that took its inspiration from Enver Hoxha's oh-so successful Albanian regime, which an ultra-Left train-spotter reliably informed had seven members (three in Liverpool, four in London). But this must have gone.

International Bolshevik Tendancy - one member

 

[cutandsplice]

To be honest, nobody apart from the left themselves care. They're marginal and irrelevant. And always will be.

 

[junius]

Oh dear.

SWP - 8000 (Down from high point of some 10- 11000, but growing by several hundred a month)
SP - clearly a few thousand but smaller than SWP, perhaps 4000. (Down from their highpoint of around 8000. Some recent modest growth)
All other groups too small to give a great deal of consideration to numerically. E.g. Workers power 40 odd, Permanent Revolution about 30.

Yes, I see why you call yourself Groucho. Perhaps one of your comrades might offer a more accurate figure for SWP membership

 

[chegrimandi]

To be honest, nobody apart from the left themselves care. They're marginal and irrelevant. And always will be.

not necessarily true. To the vast majority of people they are irrelevant, but some local groups do some good work and I doubt they would be classed as irrelevant in some communties in which they are active.

 

[Groucho]

SP 1,500

I guess that you are in a better position than I to estimate the SP membership.

Does anyone have a figure for the Cat's Protection League? They seem to be notoriously cagey about their membership.

 

[Philbc03]

International Bolshevik Tendancy - one member

Nope, the IBT in Britain have 8 members.

As for the smallest the Revolutionary Democratic Group must be in the running, consisting of the mercurial Steve Freeman and occasionally his mate from Merseyside.

 

[Tom A]

I might just form my own political party, for me, and me alone.

What shall I call it, I wonder? The Revolutionary Socialist Socialist Revolutionary Marxist Popular People's People's Party (neo-Stalinist Marxist Leninist), anyone?

 

[osterberg]

What a pointless thread.
"My party's bigger than your party!Nah,nah,nah! "
It's not the size of your organisation that matters,its what you do with it.

 

[Anotherfolky]

Thats certainly true to a large extent although not having any members would make it difficult to carry out many activities, produce publications or anything else. Pointless perhaps but I was curious whether any of the groups, grouplets etc that I used to be aware of were still functioning or growing (which would indicate they were doing something right), nothing more and nothing less.

What a pointless thread.
"My party's bigger than your party!Nah,nah,nah! "
It's not the size of your organisation that matters,its what you do with it.

 

[The Black Hand]

I've never understood why there's a problem with this. Nobody's obliged to carry one if they don't want.

Certain elements of the "anti-authoritarian" left can be extremely intolerant of leftists who are better organised than they.

FFS its as if J18/Maydays/Wombles etc never happened, here was organised activity and we didn't (and still don't) give a flying fuck about the so called "organised left" ie. you and your ilk...

So it iss not that we dislike your 'organisational abilities', the problem is what you do organise (hierarchical/inneffective/irrelevant) is as pants as your politics (hierarchical/irrelevant/statist)...

 

[Tom A]

What a pointless thread.
"My party's bigger than your party!Nah,nah,nah! "
It's not the size of your organisation that matters,its what you do with it.

*gets party out and slaps osterberg in the face with it*

 

[In Bloom]

So it iss not that we dislike your 'organisational abilities', the problem is what you do organise (hierarchical/inneffective/irrelevant) is as pants as your politics (hierarchical/irrelevant/statist)...

Not that I agree with Donna Ferentes about anything of any great importance, J18, the May Day demos in London and the Wombles were hardly relevant or effective.

 

[Simon B]

On some of the other groups mentioned, yes Workers Action have disappeared but the IBT and the RIL still exist.

Workers' Action still exist and have just put out a new issue of their magazine. They were flogging it at the recent LRC conference.

 

[osterberg]

*gets party out and slaps osterberg in the face with it*

Ouch!

 

[The Black Hand]

Not that I agree with Donna Ferentes about anything of any great importance, J18, the May Day demos in London and the Wombles were hardly relevant or effective.

As if I give a shit about the nonsense you think

 

[Donna Ferentes]

FFS its as if J18/Maydays/Wombles etc never happened, here was organised activity and we didn't (and still don't) give a flying fuck about the so called "organised left" ie. you and your ilk...

No, you don't. But what you good people organise is yourselves, in small numbers. Not much else. Anybody who does better than that, you denounce.

 

[The Black Hand]

No, you don't. But what you good people organise is yourselves, in small numbers. Not much else. Anybody who does better than that, you denounce.

Better than what? What you organise isn't threatening to the status quo...

 

[poster342002]

This thread amounts to an awful lot of

"Dear Pot...

Yours sincerely,
Kettle...

cc; The Chimney..."

 

[treelover]

What nonsense, the left groups, mainly the SWP more than the SP 'brand' protests with their monotone and ubiquitous placards, etc, thus 'claiming the demo' , and annoying everyone else, just note how many tear the tops off the placards.

I've never understood why there's a problem with this. Nobody's obliged to carry one if they don't want.

Certain elements of the "anti-authoritarian" left can be extremely intolerant of leftists who are better organised than they.

 

[Tom A]

This thread amounts to an awful lot of

"Dear Pot...

Yours sincerely,
Kettle...

cc; The Chimney..."

Spot on.

 

[dennisr]

This thread amounts to an awful lot of

"Dear Pot...

Yours sincerely,
Kettle...

cc; The Chimney..."

and poster would know all about this

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Workers' Action still exist and have just put out a new issue of their magazine. They were flogging it at the recent LRC conference.

Really? I'd been under the impression that with about a dozen members they split and then the single figure remnant had wound themselves up. If some of them have decided to keep the whole pointless endeavour trundling along there can't be more than a half dozen of them.

 

[neprimerimye]

Really? I'd been under the impression that with about a dozen members they split and then the single figure remnant had wound themselves up. If some of them have decided to keep the whole pointless endeavour trundling along there can't be more than a half dozen of them.

At least 8 it would seem from glancing through the new issue of Workers Action. I think Richard Price is taking more of a back seat these days. But a good solid read as usual. None of the hysteria and sect boosting one finds in the publications of cetrtain other groups.

 

[Plato1983]

One very small group (Class War) that makes no impact, has no future, has no actual purpose moaning about another slightly larger, intellectually bankrupt, group (the SWP/Respect) which also has no future and will make no impact on political life.

The far-left are pure comedy. Small, irrelevant, futile and so out of touch with any aspect of reality in any shape or form.

I will give them 10 out of 10 for endurance and patience, for they have been doing the sectarian routine of one cult making articles against some other cult for just under 200 years and nothing has changed, yet they still go on.

One question, why?????

 

[Paul_N17]

Any idea which is the smallest, but still functioning (ie minimally produces newsheet at least bi-annually) group in Britain?

According to their statement of accounts on the electoral commission site, the "Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist)", have a grand total of 3 full members. Gawd bless 'im!

In the 1980s there used to be a Marxist-Leninst group that took its inspiration from Enver Hoxha's oh-so successful Albanian regime, which an ultra-Left train-spotter reliably informed had seven members (three in Liverpool, four in London). But this must have gone.

That would be "Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist)"

www.workers.org.uk

 

[imposs1904]

This is the first time in a long while I've heard an SWP member publically make the laughable claim that they have 8,000 members. It's more usual for them to claim to have 5,000 although even that is massively exaggerate.

Left sizes (mostly guesses):

SSP 3,000/1,000*
SWP 2,500
SP 1,500
CPB 800/100*
SLP 300/30*
AWL 120
Socialist Appeal 60
Anarchist Federation 50
International Socialist Group 50
Workers Revolutionary Party 50
Workers Power 30
CPGB 30
Permanent Revolution 20

Everything else much less than 100.

*the groups with the star don't have the same membership criteria as the Trotskyist groups. The first figure represents the number of people who "hold a card" (ie signed something once and bunged them a fiver). The figure after the hyphen represents actual activist numbers.

On some of the other groups mentioned, yes Workers Action have disappeared but the IBT and the RIL still exist. The IBT is a small bunch of pleasant but barking mad New Zealand expats. The RIL is in hiding in its own front the Movement for Justice. As for the stuff about gay liberation, Militant did not hold a line that homosexuality was a "bourgeois deviation", instead its failings in that area consisted of a determination to ignore the issue entirely. The Socialist Party (Militant's successor) these days has a very active lgbt group within it and pays about the most serious attention to the issue of any of the existing left groups.

Socialist Party of Great Britain - about 350 members. (No jokes please, I've heard them .)
Socialist Studies group - 20-25 members

 

[nightbreed]

This is the first time in a long while I've heard an SWP member publically make the laughable claim that they have 8,000 members. It's more usual for them to claim to have 5,000 although even that is massively exaggerate.

Left sizes (mostly guesses):

SSP 3,000/1,000*
SWP 2,500
SP 1,500
CPB 800/100*
SLP 300/30*
AWL 120
Socialist Appeal 60
Anarchist Federation 50
International Socialist Group 50
Workers Revolutionary Party 50
Workers Power 30
CPGB 30
Permanent Revolution 20

Everything else much less than 100.

*the groups with the star don't have the same membership criteria as the Trotskyist groups. The first figure represents the number of people who "hold a card" (ie signed something once and bunged them a fiver). The figure after the hyphen represents actual activist numbers.

On some of the other groups mentioned, yes Workers Action have disappeared but the IBT and the RIL still exist. The IBT is a small bunch of pleasant but barking mad New Zealand expats. The RIL is in hiding in its own front the Movement for Justice. As for the stuff about gay liberation, Militant did not hold a line that homosexuality was a "bourgeois deviation", instead its failings in that area consisted of a determination to ignore the issue entirely. The Socialist Party (Militant's successor) these days has a very active lgbt group within it and pays about the most serious attention to the issue of any of the existing left groups.

I have been reliably informed that Socialist Appeall is around the 180/200 mark. Whether that is on paper or actual active membership is unclear. Comrades from the SP have confirmed to me that 1500/1800 is about correct but the actual active membership is about 750.

Just to put all these figures into perspective

New Labour membership is about 180'000 and the total working population
is around 29'000'000 to 31'000'000. Total Trade Union membership stands at best at 8'000'000.

What is the target figure for any of these groups above to be considered a mass party?

Makes you think doesnt it!!

 

[northernhord]

same people, same fragmentation, same divide and rule that keeps anything real left out of the public arena

 

[Jonti]

urban75: 31,210 members

A fair point, if obviously not directly comparable.

One can resign from a political party, but how does one "leave" Urban75? As far as I know, one cannot delete one's own account.

So I wonder, is 31,210 the total of all accounts (ever), including abandoned and multiple accounts?

 

[In Bloom]

As if I give a shit about the nonsense you think

Not actually going to make any kind of argument then?