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Starship Troopers-on now

I don't know what people see in it. The American military 'gung-ho' shit (tounge in cheek or not) turns me off straight away. The scary monster bits and special effects are ok I suppose but I don't watch/read scifi for that. I read a bit of Heinlein when I was a kid ('job' & 'The Starbeast') but I didn't notice the right-wing stuff. Don't think I could be bothered to re-read them now though.
 
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Elizabeth Montgomery fueled many the adolescent masturbatory fantasy back in the Sixties.
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Which proves that that decade was not as liberated as we might suppose.

She managed to be both sexy and sexless at the same time, as I well remember from watching repeats of the show in Halifax.

Oh, and given that he's a much better writer than Heinlein, I doubt if Mike Moorcock would have any reason for feeling 'sour grapes'.
 
In order to flag up the deep right wing currents in SF, Norman Spinrad (iirc) wrote a book containing the usual motifs about alienness versus rugged purity and put it out under the name 'Adolf Hitler', complete with spoof endorsements from other SF writers like Zelazny. :D
 
Hang on.

In the book Starship Troopers, the war against the bugs is just one small chapter. It's not what the book is about at all. As with all Heinlein's works, the book is actually about a hell of a lot of different things. The key theme, however, is the utter callousness of death in war and the way in which Rico ends up in command in no time at all despite not really having any experience. I thought it was actually rather critical of the whole concept of state militaries. Either way, I really didn't think that the gung-ho militarism was intended as anything other than a backdrop to explore the various themes.

I read it originally right after reading The Forever War by Joe Haldemann -- an infinitely better book, it has to be said, but one that I thought had some similar themes, despite coming from a very, very different place.

I'd note also that Heinlein's other books (for all their... interesting... moral perspectives) don't have anything that supports military gung-ho might-is-rightism. Stranger in a Strange Land, I will Fear No Evil, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday -- all of these preach individualism, personal relationships and self-sufficiency. As others have said -- right-wing American libertarianism. The Right To Bear Arms, the support of local militias, caution about the strength of the state, all of these things.

Personally, I love Heinlein despite disagreeing strongly with many of his pet theories. His books always give plenty to ponder and not just about politics -- he introduces everything from art appreciation to the nature of person experience and perspective. He's a truly great read, even when he's off-form.
 
kabbes said:
Hang on.

In the book Starship Troopers, the war against the bugs is just one small chapter. It's not what the book is about at all. As with all Heinlein's works, the book is actually about a hell of a lot of different things. The key theme, however, is the utter callousness of death in war and the way in which Rico ends up in command in no time at all despite not really having any experience. I thought it was actually rather critical of the whole concept of state militaries. Either way, I really didn't think that the gung-ho militarism was intended as anything other than a backdrop to explore the various themes.

I read it originally right after reading The Forever War by Joe Haldemann -- an infinitely better book, it has to be said, but one that I thought had some similar themes, despite coming from a very, very different place.

I'd note also that Heinlein's other books (for all their... interesting... moral perspectives) don't have anything that supports military gung-ho might-is-rightism. Stranger in a Strange Land, I will Fear No Evil, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday -- all of these preach individualism, personal relationships and self-sufficiency. As others have said -- right-wing American libertarianism. The Right To Bear Arms, the support of local militias, caution about the strength of the state, all of these things.

Personally, I love Heinlein despite disagreeing strongly with many of his pet theories. His books always give plenty to ponder and not just about politics -- he introduces everything from art appreciation to the nature of person experience and perspective. He's a truly great read, even when he's off-form.
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If I only had time to do the reading I'd love to compare Haldemann and Heinlen, lots of interesting paralells... A generation apart and influenced by different wars, looking at America from either side of the counterculture revolution but dealing with similar themes.

I big heart Joe Haldemann.
 
kabbes said:
I'd note also that Heinlein's other books (for all their... interesting... moral perspectives) don't have anything that supports military gung-ho might-is-rightism. Stranger in a Strange Land, I will Fear No Evil, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday -- all of these preach individualism, personal relationships and self-sufficiency. As others have said -- right-wing American libertarianism. The Right To Bear Arms, the support of local militias, caution about the strength of the state, all of these things..
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^
this

Calling him a fascist is daft.
 
Idris2002 said:
Which proves that that decade was not as liberated as we might suppose..
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I dunno.

Elizabeth-Montgomery.jpg


sampinup.jpg

Would you?

I'm not sure how finding Elizabeth Montgomery attractive is indicative of sexual repression.
 
vogonity said:
Yeah, I remember Verhoeven describing it as a parody of American Fascism - it's quite amazingly subversive for a mainstream movie...
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There's a good point: would Paul Verhoven direct a movie if he thought it was some sort of endorsement of fascism?

Look at the man's body of work.
 
Starship Troopers seems to be permanently on these days. I do like all the humans lying around splattered like bugs. It's about as fascistic as Fight Club. :eek:
 
starship troopers 2 is toss, the third one isn't too bad though and they get the proper suits at the end of it, which is nice.

Oh and book clearly has pro facist leanings(not sure or even care if hanlen does) the film is very very different and clearly a spoof of facism.

would you like to know more?


dave
 
oh dear i mistyped and now look like even more of a prick then usual.:(

starship troopers one is amazing, 2 is toss, 3 is fairly danm decent.


dave
 
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