FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Starship Troopers, the book, anti-war?Johnny Canuck2 said:
Okay, you're going to have to go into more detail on that one, because I cannot see that at all.
Starship troopers - any good?
- Thread starter In Bloom
- Start date
Okay, you're going to have to go into more detail on that one, because I cannot see that at all.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
The film is great nazis in outer space wonderful fun .The 2nd one is terrible until the end .cartoon is good as well .
The book was written as a homage to the united states marine corps
as Heinlein was in the united states navy on the troop ships which the marines left to invade various pacfic islands .The idea that we would have better leaders if the right to lead or vote had to be earned and earned by military or some other civilian equivilent service is intresting .The book is certainly worth
reading .
The book was written as a homage to the united states marine corps
as Heinlein was in the united states navy on the troop ships which the marines left to invade various pacfic islands .The idea that we would have better leaders if the right to lead or vote had to be earned and earned by military or some other civilian equivilent service is intresting .The book is certainly worth
reading .
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Idris2002 said:
Why not? He has cannibalism in there.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
FridgeMagnet said:
Maybe it was just me at the time I read it. It seemed to paint war almost as tedious drudgery.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
whats the quote about war 90% boredom 10% sheer terror
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Loki said:
I agree.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
He must have been far too subtle; I'm afraid the book reads completely straight to me.Loki said:
A Dashing Blade
Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
Stigmata said:
and, to some extent at least written as a response/critque to Starship Troopers (Haldeman having been in Vietnam)
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I've never been able to make my mind up for sure, I used to think it was completely straight until I saw the movie, in which several of the funniest scenes were lifted straight from the book: e.g. their high-school teacher's rant about military/civic virtue or the scenes with the psycho drill instructor. Did Heinlein intend those as satire? If you just saw the film you'd be in no doubt those scenes were satirical and as far as I can recall they were a straight lift. On the other hand, maybe a po-faced origin in Heinlein's serious intent is exactly why they became such spot-on satire in the movie?FridgeMagnet said:
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Bernie Gunther said:
I think that might be more to Verhoevens take on the source material (a throwback to his Robocop days).
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
In Bloom said:
The book is fantastic, much better then the film, but the film is good as well but for totally different reasons.
Heinlin definately endorses stratocracy (government by military) I wouldn't say his world view is fascist, it's certainly militarist, perhaps facistic or pseudo-fascist, but I respect the opinions of those that say he is a straight out fascist. Afterall, military organizations are all inhereantly fascist by definition so... it's all cigerette papers really.
I enjoyed the book Starship Troopers but I don't agree with Heinlins world view (and I remember that alot of the book seemed to go on in a kind of rant-against aspects of the US military and American society in general). I can't stand Heinlin usually, particularly the way he writes about women makes me feel like I'v been locked in a room with an out an out shit-painting lunatic who thinks women are literally from another planet, I can't take most of his stuff seriously, A Stranger in a Strange Land for instance semed promising, before it was ruined for me by his unwieldy and painful chauvanism (I got as far as page 20 I think).
The book was a good way of entering the American military mind of the 40's and 50's anyway (or whenever it was originally written) and how they saw the rest of the world like the people of Korea and the 'communist threat' for example. But I was also impressed by the technology Heinlin imagined, which I thought was quite sophisticated for its time.
57th Mobile Infantry, HOO-AHH!
heinlein was a bit of a funny one, basically an objectavist (randite), so i'd be inclined to think the book is a parody of fascist statism - but his support for the vietnam war (mentioned in the other thread) would sugest otherwise...
heinlein was definately strongly opposed to racism, and did (accurately) predict fascism without racism in at least one of his books
he also was not consistantly sexist - one of his books had a black female protagonist if i remember rightly
heinlein was definately strongly opposed to racism, and did (accurately) predict fascism without racism in at least one of his books
he also was not consistantly sexist - one of his books had a black female protagonist if i remember rightly
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
The line that made me 'chuckle' was when the guy was offered to be promoted and he said something like,
"No thanks Ive been there once and blown it, i'm just here to fight."
Kind of summed up the stupidity of war in a very throw away remark.
"No thanks Ive been there once and blown it, i'm just here to fight."
Kind of summed up the stupidity of war in a very throw away remark.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Haldeman's The Forever War was, by the way, heavily borrowed from in the second book of Alan Moore's The Ballad of Halo Jones. (It also uses an anecdote from Michael Herr's Despatches.)
likesfish
You can't park here sir
be intresting to think who of our current leaders would get into power if heinleins
system was in place.
certainly not Blair or Bush
.
you did'nt have to fight under the system but whatever you did have to do under fedral service would be difficult dangerous or just unplesantly harsh how many of the westminster mob would deal with 5 years of VOS service for example to get a vote
who said facism was entirely bad
system was in place.
certainly not Blair or Bush
. you did'nt have to fight under the system but whatever you did have to do under fedral service would be difficult dangerous or just unplesantly harsh how many of the westminster mob would deal with 5 years of VOS service for example to get a vote
who said facism was entirely bad
fractionMan
Custom Title
That's what I've been thinking. There's a whole load of hienlein stuff that is anti-authoritarian. Like the moon is a harsh mistress, which admittedly I haven't read since the age of about 14. I haven't read starship troopers, but I can't imagine how that film could have been made out of a book endorsing space nazis. It's a distopia if ever there was one.Loki said:
Loosely Kotched
New Member
akirajoel said:
some people have too much time, and acid.
fractionMan
Custom Title
Right, I'm off down the library to read it and see.Jografer said:
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