Stage Musicals

[Reno]

Musicals are shit. Nothing to do with elitism - they're the last refuge for the untalented and failing. Keith Chegwin could be playing the lead in Oliver and still people would turn up. If it can work for Martine McCutcheon and Neil Morrissey's ex it can work for any 2-bit knobber

Andrew Lloyd Webber should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. How many poor children have had to endure performing the witless moronity of his twee musicals at school...

All books are shit because of Jeffrey Archer, all films are shit because of Guy Ritchie and all pop music is shit because of James Blunt. Attacking something by only singling out its worst examples is lazy and not that smart.

 

[Griff]

Judging by the poll, we haven't reached any conclusions yet then.

 

[electrogirl]

Judging by the poll, we haven't reached any conclusions yet then.

i'm not voting in that friccin poll

 

[Griff]

i'm not voting in that friccin poll

 

[tarannau]

what a load of wank. all musicals are shit are they? generalisation much? Which musicals predominately employ ex-soap stars exactly? Yep, chicago seems to have a different celebrity as Roxy every week, but as far as i know they've all filled the part excellently. It's become a bit of a gimmick to be honest. You mention Martine McCutcheon, but does being in Eastenders automatically mean you are crap at anything else?

Look at the musicals on the West End now. Cabaret, Wicked, Lion King, The Producers, Mary Poppins, Billy Elliot, Les Miserables...the list goes on..do any of these emply ex soap stars?

You sound like a snob.

And you sound a little defensive. Good tempered bulletin board pisstakes rely heavily on generalisation ime.

Oh yeah. I'm a real snob me - I'll tell that to the folks down the local, they'll be pissing themselves. In fact, good working class folks that they are, they'd probably have to form an angry mob and protest in favour of those musicals. After all, it's not really predominantly tourists and fairly well off ladies who are the most likely attendees at a West End musical show.

 

[Crispy]

I'll take you to Sunday in the Park with George, Tarranau - you'll enjoy and then you can eat a hat

 

[Reno]

Good tempered bulletin board pisstakes .

 

[fudgefactorfive]

Musicals and opera make me want to go on a killing spree.

 

[Griff]

Musicals and opera make me want to go on a killing spree.

 

[tarannau]

All books are shit because of Jeffrey Archer, all films are shit because of Guy Ritchie and all pop music is shit because of James Blunt. Attacking something by only singling out its worst examples is lazy and not that smart.

I think you'd be hard pressed to even imply that either of those two have anywhere near the influence of ALW on their chosen fields. Jeffrey Archer's book sales represent just a pathetically tiny minuscule fraction of the worldwide book market, James Blunt's just a little squit in the music sector.

Andrew Lloyd Webber, on the other hand, looms like a oversized giant over the worldwide musical scene. Not content with being the dominant writer of musicals of his generation, his musicals almost part of the national curriculum in schools, the floppy lipped tory wanker even owns a goodly chunk of theatreland.

Now, is that the sign of a healthy and diverse scene? Or a clear indication of a duff, sordid little money grabbing industry for softened minds? My money's more on the latter...

 

[fudgefactorfive]

Who could not like Joseph

 

[Reno]

I think you'd be hard pressed to even imply that either of those two have anywhere near the influence of ALW on their chosen fields. Jeffrey Archer's book sales represent just a pathetically tiny minuscule fraction of the worldwide book market, James Blunt just a little squit in the music sector.

Andrew Lloyd Webber, on the other hand, looms like a oversized giant over the worldwide musical scene. Not content with being the dominant writer of musicals of his generation, his musicals almost part of the national curriculum in schools, the floppy lipped tory wanker even owns a goodly chunk of theatreland.

Now, is that the sign of a healthy and diverse scene? Or a clear indication of a duff, sordid little money grabbing industry for softened minds? My money's more on the latter...

I agree with you that Webber musicals clogging up theatres for decades is crap. This still doesn't render all of what is a diverse artform shit.

 

[tarannau]

I'll take you to Sunday in the Park with George, Tarranau - you'll enjoy and then you can eat a hat

I bet you I wouldn't. It's a Sondheim isn't it? - I'd expect a pretentious 'arty' plot and a characters so thinly constructed and 2D in development that they'd blow over if someone farted in the audience.

There'll be lots of visual smoke and mirrors for sure. But it still wouldn't really alter the fact the music would still be that cheesily twee musical nonsense, sung by kids with annoying stage school affected voices. Think a wetter 'h' from Steps and you'll be there. Am I wrong Crispy?

It'd be a musical experience, a feelgood moment some insist on telling me. And I just want to look at them and tell them they'd have far more of a musical eye-opener if they went and smoked a spliff in front of Valve's or Aba Shanti's rig, big waves of ribcracking bass washing over them, causing you to grin inanely. That's a truly immersive, feelgood musical experience, far more than listening to a load of drama school numpties sing old show tunes written by superannuated writers many years ago.

 

[Crispy]

*throws hands in air*
*peers down nose at tarranau*

 

[tarannau]

Enough of that Crispy, but was I right in my summary about 'Sunday In the Park'? Even slightly?

I've never seen a Sondheim musical with a character of any depth. From what I know about 'Sunday..' it's unlikely to break the pattern. I just find Sondheim's work so uninvolving as a result, so contrived. He's slightly below even Dan Brown in his inability to make characters even seem vaguely convincing.

 

[Crispy]

The central character is the only one with any depth. I just enjoyed it

Can I put that dif'rent strokes pic up?

 

[fudgefactorfive]

the bf loves musicals - I've had to endure him performing in several over the years, including Fucking West Side Story ... that's a real relationship test, if you can sit through WSS because you love someone and not feel like knifing him afterwards, that's real love.

We just talked about what the ones I don't especially hate (or will even admit to "liking") have in common, and basically they're all comedies, or not 100% serious at least. If it's a Romance, or something trying to Illustrate A Grand Social Point Through The Medium Of Stomach-Churning Warbling, just fuck off basically.

 

[ICB]

the winky smiley doesn't take away the fact that alot of people actually think that, or that it's absolute elitist bollocks.

ooooooh

It's elitist in London maybe but not elsewhere (OK I grant Glyndebourne and La Scala) and certainly not abroad; opera in countries such as Italy and the Czech Republic is enjoyed by many and accessible to many.

There's a lack of exposure and a sort of inverse snobbery about opera in the UK.

 

[Griff]

the bf loves musicals

God.

Have you thought about leaving him?

 

[fudgefactorfive]

God.

Have you thought about leaving him?

I think that when people endure an incredibly traumatic experience together - such as watching West Side Story or Mamma Mia - it actually helps bind them together. A kind of bond through shared psychic scarring.

 

[tarannau]

.. that's a real relationship test, if you can sit through WSS because you love someone and not feel like knifing him afterwards, that's real love.

If it's a Romance, or something trying to Illustrate A Grand Social Point Through The Medium Of Stomach-Churning Warbling, just fuck off basically.

You're a better man than me FF. Your bf would be lying outside the theatre right about know, steaming bootprints all over.

. If it's a Romance, or something trying to Illustrate A Grand Social Point Through The Medium Of Stomach-Churning Warbling, just fuck off basically.

I doff my hat you you again. Musicals must be one of the worst ways of expressing social comment (see Sondheim) - as if a warbling drama-school reject expressing themself in the form of hammy dancing and twee dancing's ever going to convince hearts and minds.

 

[Crispy]

PS: I went to the opera once and couldn't stand it. Stupid plot, illogical characters and that singing style just grates on the ears. It gets in the way of the music (which was quite good)

 

[fudgefactorfive]

PS: I went to the opera once and couldn't stand it. Stupid plot, illogical characters and that singing style just grates on the ears. It gets in the way of the music (which was quite good)

agreed, all that vibrato fucks me off within minutes, can't stand it

 

[Griff]

A scene which should give you some idea of Whistle Down the Wind

*shudders*

 

[Reno]

ooooooh

It's elitist in London maybe but not elsewhere (OK I grant Glyndebourne and La Scala) and certainly not abroad; opera in countries such as Italy and the Czech Republic is enjoyed by many and accessible to many.

There's a lack of exposure and a sort of inverse snobbery about opera in the UK.

That's true. Having grown up in the South of Germany, Opera there is considered popular entertainment rather than something highbrow which only rich people go to. My dad, who comes from a working class background, used to take me to the opera when I was a kid, mostly the ones based on fairy tales like The Magic Flute and Haensel and Gretel and later on Wagners The Flying Dutchman, which is ghost story and made a big impression on me. To me they were just exciting pieces of theatre which happened to tell their stories with music. Nobody I know there considers it "cool" to knock opera, as most people are a lot more familiar with it. On the whole it's easy to just dismiss something you never made any effort to understand.

 

[fudgefactorfive]

it's true, the only thing worse than listening to a stage musical is looking at it

 

[ICB]

That's true. Having grown up in the South of Germany, Opera there is considered popular entertainment rather something highbrow which only rich people go to. My dad, who comes from a working class background, used to take me to the opera when I was a kid, mostly the ones based on fairy tales like The Magic Flute and Haensel and Gretel and later on Wagners The Flying Dutchman, which is ghost story and made a big impression on me. To me they were just exciting pieces of theatre who happened to tell their stories with music. Nobody I know there considers it "cool" to knock opera, as most people are a lot more familiar with it. On the whole it's easy to just dismiss something you never made any effort to understand.

you're very lucky, would be great if more people had that sort of introduction, excellent choices for a kid those

My first was Otello at about 14, a very traditional production with a steeply sloping wooden stage, I loved it in much the same way as you, a ripping yarn. Not long after I saw a modern costume production of Carmen in English, it was OK but I much prefer the trad jobs. When I was out in Prague in '96 we'd have a choice of 3 or 4 on everynight with tickets from £1.50

 

[vogonity]

I don't exactly love going to see musicals, but I have enjoyed some. 42nd Street and Chicago were highly enjoyable. Caroline, or Change was magnificent. That said, I found Whistle Down the Wind utterly vile.

 

[Griff]

I found Whistle Down the Wind utterly vile.

 

[electrogirl]

I think you'd be hard pressed to even imply that either of those two have anywhere near the influence of ALW on their chosen fields. Jeffrey Archer's book sales represent just a pathetically tiny minuscule fraction of the worldwide book market, James Blunt's just a little squit in the music sector.

Andrew Lloyd Webber, on the other hand, looms like a oversized giant over the worldwide musical scene. Not content with being the dominant writer of musicals of his generation, his musicals almost part of the national curriculum in schools, the floppy lipped tory wanker even owns a goodly chunk of theatreland.

Now, is that the sign of a healthy and diverse scene? Or a clear indication of a duff, sordid little money grabbing industry for softened minds? My money's more on the latter...

so tell me, is your problem with lloyd webber, or with musicals? doesn't every genre have it's commercial, money grabbing type?

i don't have a problem with you not liking lloyd webber, but dismissing musicals as for 'softened minds' is just pathetic.

And as for it being a money grabbing industry..yep..you're probably right. I went to the old vic last week and it was £3.50, but the amount of handouts and subsidarys they get makes that possible, and musicals just by their very nature are more expensive to put on than plays or operas.