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St Athan

lewislewis said:
Unfortunately it was not a resolution, although I was under the impression it was as were many others.

It could be turned into a resolution though, Jill obviously knows more than me about the climate in the party because I'm certain the NC would back an anti-St.Athan resolution.

The NC decided not to take any stance on the issue. Lame. However Jill and anyone else are free to campaign against the academy and not be 'stopped' as John Smith MP suggests.
Pity. At least they didn't enforce a party line, though.
I guess it would've been too damaging for the membership to have voted against the leadership on an issue like this, especially given the shitstorm of over the top right wing abuse that Jill had to endure from all quarters over the weekend.
 
John Smith's comments still amaze me. Something like 'she is talking nonsense and should be stopped'.

He's either being really stupid and emotional (because he's campaigned for years to try and get this delivered to St. Athan) or he genuinely thinks she should be silenced somehow? Anti-terrorism laws maybe?

There should be a demonstration called outside Labour's home in Wales, Transport House in Cardiff.
 
llantwit said:
Pity. At least they didn't enforce a party line, though.
I guess it would've been too damaging for the membership to have voted against the leadership on an issue like this, especially given the shitstorm of over the top right wing abuse that Jill had to endure from all quarters over the weekend.

Jill's paper has succeeded in one respect - the issue is now out of the left-peacenik ghetto (no offence intended) and in the mainstream of Welsh political debate.
It's not for Jill or Plaid to dictate the direction of the campaign, but at least there's now new scope for the campaign to argue the toss about PFI, the companies involved, the failure of Phase 2, the number of jobs created... is it true Alun Cairns is now quoting 10,000 jobs?
One other matter - Bryant seems to be setting up the case for Jill to take the rap if/when Phase 2 is publicly announced as not coming to St Athan.
 
llantwit said:
Was that a bitchy comment?!
For fucks sake, we've been to every other meeting since the first one ages ago, and we've done a fair bit of work on this in a number of different ways.:rolleyes:
Appologies if I'm being hyper sensitive, like.

Respect could do more, but it was the only political party to raise the issue of St Athan's in the Assembly Elections with our opposition to the Military Academy included on every single election leaflet and the first political party in Wales to publicly oppose the Military Academy (unfortunately the Echo declined to print either the letter or press release that I personally sent to them about a year ago). Cllr Salma Yaqoob (Birmingham) and Cllr Ray Holmes (Bolsover) from both wings of Respect have both sent messages of support to the campaign. I have also given some help to the co-ordinator of the campaign in passing on useful contacts etc.

As it goes, while I have seen Penderyn publicly argue that the war was over in 2003 and that the anti-war movement should be demobilised, I have not seen him take part in any activism to oppose the occupation of Iraq for at least 3 years! I could equally say that Cardiff PRs opposition to imperialism has been tokenistic.

Edited to add: In fact, I have just heard that a member of Respect was present at said meeting - so much for a factual account!
 
You haven't heard of PR? But they are the most left wing, militant revolutionary group in the UK!!!!!
Once upon the time there used to be a party called Workers Power. They had around 50 ageing members in the UK. There main priority seemed to be to attempt to look more lefty than the Socialist Workers Party, hence an obsession with finding ways to "expose" the SWP as not really very nice and a kind of militant "resolutionary" socialism where they would put forward rather militant sounding slogans that had no connection to reality or the actual balance of class forces this over optimistic rhetoric was combined with conservative practice. For example, every so often they would demand that an organisation issue a call to the workers to go on general strike (actually, I issued a call for a general strike last week! But the workers ignored me)
Famously, Penderyn thought that the Welsh Socialist Alliance should demand armed workers militia on it's election literature. While I agree that in a revolutionary situation this would be useful, most of us thought that at the present moment this wasn't a campaigning priority. Nevertheless Penderyn's exercise was sucessful in his eyes as exposing the SWP as toytown revolutionaries who hid their politics because they wouldn't tell granny's on the doorstep to form armed workers militia.
I don't know if Penderyn formed his band of 3 merry men + 1 woman into Dad's army and went marching around splott and roath park and I don't really care.
Nevertheless Workers Power were going to lead the revolution and were the UK section of the League to launch a 5th International.
Last year, they expelled half their members who formed a group called Permanent Revolution (PR) some of whom are now members of the Labour Party who PR decided we should all vote for. In a moment of maoist self-criticism, the Permanent Revolution slammed all the positions that had informed Workers Power's political perspective, which was a bit odd because the Cardiff comrades basically said that what they had been arguing six months past was loony and that they only did it because of "democratic centralism".
But really we should let Penderyn give his own account of the organisation - it's his party and he can cry if he wants to, you'd cry too if it happened to you!
 
Wait a minute, there are seriously political parties in existence in the UK that have 50 members?

I know SWP, Respect, SP etc are small and only have up to about 1,000, but 50?!

The Welsh Socialist Alliance could have been a breakthrough, it had good policies and actually managed to field candidates.
 
The political parties mentioned are somewhat bigger than you think. But I expect the combined strength of far left parties put together would be perhaps 12,000 people at the moment in the UK.

On a serious note I think this is ashame, other countries have far bigger left wing movements. Even in France, the leaders of the two main trotskyist parties are household names and regularly appear on national TV. I personally wish that the left as a whole was far stronger here.

With this current phase of savage capitalism that has seen an unprecedented neoliberal offensive with the market encroaching more and more on areas of society that were once considered sacred and everything including our lives run for profit the need for "our side" to get organised has never been greater.
 
But what about the factionalism and bureacratism or the far-left? There are even capitalist mainstream parties that are democratic and don't have those hang-ups.

I wish 'the left' as a whole was far stronger here too just to make things more interesting. The SSP is the closest the far-left came in the last ten years to having an impact, but even they were undone by infighting.

The thing is, in Wales we have a different set of political circumstances. We have a larger working class as a proportion of our population than England does and a larger industrial base as a proportion, but no major cities. We have a separate, infant government that is more susceptible to the influence of progressive politics than the Westminster government. This is all top-down stuff, but there needs to be a left force that is concerned with linking these top-level developments such as devolution, with the need to resist the neoliberal offensive you talk about. Such a left force would have to be specifically oriented to the needs of Wales, because Wales although an imagined national community is real in the minds of the people. The SSP were succesful in achieving this in Scotland, whilst still being an internationalist party. They had their campaigning side but were also decent at fighting elections.
Why not a WSP? Ban all the small factions and say you must be a member of this party and no other. Your Respect slogan 'Another Wales is Possible' is pretty grim, most people in Wales have not heard of Respect or even George Galloway.
 
lewislewis said:
But what about the factionalism and bureacratism or the far-left? There are even capitalist mainstream parties that are democratic and don't have those hang-ups.

I wish 'the left' as a whole was far stronger here too just to make things more interesting. The SSP is the closest the far-left came in the last ten years to having an impact, but even they were undone by infighting.

The thing is, in Wales we have a different set of political circumstances. We have a larger working class as a proportion of our population than England does and a larger industrial base as a proportion, but no major cities. We have a separate, infant government that is more susceptible to the influence of progressive politics than the Westminster government. This is all top-down stuff, but there needs to be a left force that is concerned with linking these top-level developments such as devolution, with the need to resist the neoliberal offensive you talk about. Such a left force would have to be specifically oriented to the needs of Wales, because Wales although an imagined national community is real in the minds of the people. The SSP were succesful in achieving this in Scotland, whilst still being an internationalist party. They had their campaigning side but were also decent at fighting elections.
Why not a WSP? Ban all the small factions and say you must be a member of this party and no other. Your Respect slogan 'Another Wales is Possible' is pretty grim, most people in Wales have not heard of Respect or even George Galloway.
Bring back the WRSM!:cool:
 
The National Audit Office's criticism of the Qinetiq privatisation has put an important Metrix player in the headlines. Read our response at http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com, and for the uninitiated, judge us both on our arguments and what we do rather than anything you read here.
 
if you're a splinter from workers power i got a good idea of what you're like.

best of luck to you
 
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