Squaddism

[Karen Eliot]

what you do tend to find in life is that groups who espouse violence against external opponents like say the IRA and the Ulster loyalists were also liable to use violence to settle matters internally. Violence becomes a legitimate modus operandi. And that's really the crowning argument against militant anti-fascism.

Also no surprise whatever that one of the authors of the no retreat book giving all those lurid accounts stamping on skinhead's heads, was found guilty of mugging a gay man.

...and forced to resign from Red Action and AFA as a result. Which destroys your uttely incoherent 'crowning argument' on two levels - fistly a) violence was not used to "to settle matters internally" and b) the members of AFA did not 'grow over' into the same sort of politics as the fascists through confronting them, they still retained their political rejection of fascism and acted accordingly whenever those principlese were put to the test.

I'd be interested to hear just why the possibility of internal violence is your 'crowning argument' btw? Presumably if any fascist group directed it's violent activties externally they would be looked on more favourbaly by you up on your cloud than any non-fascist group that had ever experienced any degree of internal violence?

 

[lights.out.london]

...and forced to resign from Red Action and AFA as a result. Which destroys your uttely incoherent 'crowning argument' on two levels - fistly a) violence was not used to "to settle matters internally" and b) the members of AFA did not 'grow over' into the same sort of politics as the faciscts through confronting them, they still retained their political rejection of fascism and acted accordingly whenever those principlese were put to the test.

Er...are you directing this at me or Sheffieldboy?

 

[Karen Eliot]

Innocent likkle Sheffieldboy.

 

[lights.out.london]

Innocent likkle Sheffieldboy.

Yeah. Sorry. I re-read it. I'm having one of those days. Lol.

 

[chilango]

Do the casual linking of afa, animal rights and Irish Republicanism set off any bells?

how about the phrase "racial nationalism" ?

Hmm?

Hmm?

Sheffieldboy?

 

[Karen Eliot]

Took long enough for anyone to twig!!!

 

[lights.out.london]

**clueless**

 

[tbaldwin]

AFA had a really good record of standing up to the Nazis from the 80s to early 90s.
I left AFA cos certain people were obviously more interested in building their own organisations than stopping the BNP etc...And they went in for things that gave both AFA and the BNP widespread publicity....Classic SWP style tactics......
But Militant anti fascism worked with and without AFA. The BNP were humiliated at Brick Lane 3 days after getting their first Councillor elected in 93The tactics of the Independent anti fascists that day were spot on and led to years of bitter infighting and recriminations in the ranks of the BNP.
Ending up with the leader of C18 being found guilty of murdering one of his fellow nazis.

 

[sheffieldboy]

...and forced to resign from Red Action and AFA as a result. Which destroys your uttely incoherent 'crowning argument' on two levels - fistly a) violence was not used to "to settle matters internally" and b) the members of AFA did not 'grow over' into the same sort of politics as the fascists through confronting them, they still retained their political rejection of fascism and acted accordingly whenever those principlese were put to the test.

I'd be interested to hear just why the possibility of internal violence is your 'crowning argument' btw? Presumably if any fascist group directed it's violent activties externally they would be looked on more favourbaly by you up on your cloud than any non-fascist group that had ever experienced any degree of internal violence?

were you one of the little so-called spotters then? I know the fighting lads used to have these little willing women in awe of their laddish violence who used to go and nobly report back to them where the boneheads were, so the boneheads could duly recieve their good kick-in. The same women presumably who would be the first to bleat how bad and degrading male violence was if it concerned domestic violence where they were the victims themselves.

 

[Karen Eliot]

*busted as fuck* lol

See you next time. You fat old sweaty, never again looking at the pics merchant.

 

[lights.out.london]

Lmao.

 

[Karen Eliot]

Damn them little women eh sheff boy?

 

[118118]

Tosser.

any defense of this statement is clearly irrational. but i've been reading a nazi existentialist, so wtf I DON'T CARE. sniffle.

(imo its not tut-tutting if its genuine upsettness with cruelty)

 

[118118]

which it probably isn't

lol

 

[Frank Drebben]

were you one of the little so-called spotters then? I know the fighting lads used to have these little willing women in awe of their laddish violence who used to go and nobly report back to them where the boneheads were, so the boneheads could duly recieve their good kick-in. The same women presumably who would be the first to bleat how bad and degrading male violence was if it concerned domestic violence where they were the victims themselves.

Anti fascism = domestic violence Anyway lets hear more about your willing women and laddishness.

You can moan about AFA but the fact is it was Griffin that called the game off.

 

[lights.out.london]

Anti fascism = domestic violence Anyway lets hear more about your willing women and laddishness.

I'm trying to see how sheffieldboy manages to make that tenuous connection between Antifa/AFA and domestic violence. A logically fallacious move, IMHO.

[Besides, whilst I might be able to hold my own against most boneheads, my last partner, all 5'1" of her would have beaten nine shades of shit of me had I ever done more than shout back at her. ]

 

[JimPage]

AFA havent produce such a book. I assume you mean Tilzleys and Hanns effort- which was roundly condemned by antifascists when it came out in 2004.

 

[lights.out.london]

AFA havent produce such a book. I assume you mean Tilzleys and Hanns effort- which was roundly condemned by antifascists when it came out in 2004.

Erm? Me or sheffieldboy? I don't believe I've mentioned any book(s) concerning AFA?

 

[JimPage]

Anti fascism = domestic violence Anyway lets hear more about your willing women and laddishness.

You can moan about AFA but the fact is it was Griffin that called the game off.[/QUOTE]

The game was called off by the BNP well before Griffin became a member- namely in 1994 by Tony Lecomber who issued the "no more marches, meetings and paper sales" dictat.

Which has now been reversed by a too-cocky BNP who are now holding street paper sales again. They clearly didnt understand the message given from 1985-1995 that they arent allowed to organise street activities.

 

[Frank Drebben]

Anti fascism = domestic violence Anyway lets hear more about your willing women and laddishness.

You can moan about AFA but the fact is it was Griffin that called the game off.[/QUOTE]

The game was called off by the BNP well before Griffin became a member- namely in 1994 by Tony Lecomber who issued the "no more marches, meetings and paper sales" dictat.

Which has now been reversed by a too-cocky BNP who are now holding street paper sales again. They clearly didnt understand the message given from 1985-1995 that they arent allowed to organise street activities.

Not going to split hairs here but I always thought it was no more marches no more punch ups that got Griffin elected. Lecomber enjoyed a good run as Griffins , and the BNPs , electoral strategist.As for the paper sales they have in fact done them for about five years as part of branch building, they also do petitioning and leafleting. I don't really think that equates to the 'march and build' tactics that they had under Tyndall. They are cocky because with the exception of a small minority the anti fascists are still stuck either in no platform or calling them Nazi. By organising patiently in local communities politically they are streets ahead of the left. It is a great pity that the left weren't able to change tactics successfully as they did, most are still obsessed with watching them nervously half hoping that they will march so that they can be theoretically proved right and half hoping that they won't in case in reality their theoretical tactics don't come off.

 

[Golden Virginia]

AFA havent produce such a book. I assume you mean Tilzleys and Hanns effort- which was roundly condemned by antifascists when it came out in 2004.

For "anti-fascists" replace with "red action"

 

[lights.out.london]

For "anti-fascists" replace with "red action"

Who told you that?

 

[lights.out.london]

Okay. So no-one told you that. You just made it up. Lol.

 

[The Black Hand]

I've just read an AFA sympathetic report of it. I'rd have felt sorry for the boneheads even if they'rd been peodophiles. What are you celebrating exactly- mob brutality? I've seen ethnic monorities the victims of white mobs. Where's the courage required to attack in a big mob? and with the hapless boneheads arriving in ones and twos. You didn't take them on one against one. When AFA say they picked their battles - isn't that just a euphemism for cowardly thuggery? They were going to see a band called paki in the gutter so you left some of them in the gutter? As I say what's the difference between you and them?

You clearly know nothing of the problems of political activity in London where the filth try to stop politics happening. There was a lot of black shirts (police) around (as there is on any interesting publisised political activity) and you need large numbers to have any chance of getting at fascists who always call on the police to protect them.

 

[The Black Hand]

Okay. So no-one told you that. You just made it up. Lol.

'She knows she knows'

 

[Paul Marsh]

For "anti-fascists" replace with "red action"

The review in Class War was hardly ecstatic either, then again what else could Steve "I'm With Searchlight" Tilzey and Dave "It Was My Mate, Not Me" Hann expect?

 

[The Black Hand]

AFA had a really good record of standing up to the Nazis from the 80s to early 90s.
I left AFA cos certain people were obviously more interested in building their own organisations than stopping the BNP etc...And they went in for things that gave both AFA and the BNP widespread publicity....Classic SWP style tactics......
But Militant anti fascism worked with and without AFA. The BNP were humiliated at Brick Lane 3 days after getting their first Councillor elected in 93The tactics of the Independent anti fascists that day were spot on and led to years of bitter infighting and recriminations in the ranks of the BNP.
Ending up with the leader of C18 being found guilty of murdering one of his fellow nazis.

Good.

 

[JimPage]

. By organising patiently in local communities politically they are streets ahead of the left. It is a great pity that the left weren't able to change tactics successfully as they did, most are still obsessed with watching them nervously half hoping that they will march so that they can be theoretically proved right and half hoping that they won't in case in reality their theoretical tactics don't come off.

but with the left showing no signs of methodical organising in communities- what option is there to try to continue the no platform strategy to disrupt them as and when people can? just becasue the BNP are not trying to control the streets- doesnt mean that we can allow them to hold meetings and socials, sell papers and stand for election etc- which they are doing with impunity?

from the reports coming in of the extent of the BNP campaign in May (over 500 canddiates)- not sure what exactly can be done in the short perioud until may 4th

 

[Frank Drebben]

but with the left showing no signs of methodical organising in communities- what option is there to try to continue the no platform strategy to disrupt them as and when people can? just becasue the BNP are not trying to control the streets- doesnt mean that we can allow them to hold meetings and socials, sell papers and stand for election etc- which they are doing with impunity?

from the reports coming in of the extent of the BNP campaign in May (over 500 canddiates)- not sure what exactly can be done in the short perioud until may 4th

Well if you don't do the first activity you are left with having to advocate the second one as a way of 'proving' that you are doing something.

 

[The Black Hand]

The following is an article from Searchlight magazine, despite its track record (Hello Mr O'Hara) my point here is say that it appears that all is not doom and gloom. This article appears to suggest people are working against the BNP with success within the traditional labour movement, and unless there is more information from the ground (rather than ultra left pronouncements) we have to conclude that all is not going to go the BNP way...

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=193