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Speech Debacklash

stupid dogbot said:
It's relevant because you brought personal appearance into the thread after posting a load of your usual guff and being called on it.

If you don't like being told you're wrong, try not posting when you've got no idea. I realise this will seriously restrict the volume of your posts, but I doubt there'll be much complaint, tbh.

;)
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How am I wrong? :confused:

Sales surged 400% in the week following winning the prize. They re-released the album (which hadn't dented the charts prior to that) and it went straight into the top 5. How am I wrong, Staines?
 
Kanda said:
People are just pissed off cos their money was on Florence :D
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Mine wasn't - I had a tenner on Speech at 16/1 :) :D

Not that I think her album's anything brilliant, but I just thought it felt like a Mercury winner, what with her backstory and all that, and at those odds it was well worth a punt.
 
gabi said:
No idea :confused: He seems to be ignoring basic facts.
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to be fair, i think you're not reading right either.

It wasn't about the Mercury prize in isolation - the media had really got behind the album, they were all over the TV all summer and THEN won the Mercury, which sent 50 quid man down the shops to buy the album that had One Fine Day on it.

The Mercury cemented in the public eye what was already a big swell of support for the album.
 
Dr. Furface said:
Mine wasn't - I had a tenner on Speech at 16/1 :) :D

Not that I think her album's anything brilliant, but I just thought it felt like a Mercury winner, what with her backstory and all that, and at those odds it was well worth a punt.
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I won some money the year Portishead won. Can't remember what the odds were now, but it was just so OBVIOUSLY the best album by a country mile that it was a no-brainer to take a punt on. It was almost a bit of a joke that they even bothered to have a contest. The judges simply wouldn't have been able to look anyone in the eye ever again if they hadn't given it to Beth and her blokes.
 
El Jefe said:
to be fair, i think you're not reading right either.

It wasn't about the Mercury prize in isolation - the media had really got behind the album, they were all over the TV all summer and THEN won the Mercury, which sent 50 quid man down the shops to buy the album that had One Fine Day on it.

The Mercury cemented in the public eye what was already a big swell of support for the album.
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Well, I think we're in agreement then. Financially, leaving aside the 20k prize, the band did very well out of it.

So the argument that the Mercury is pointless (from an entirely cynical, commercial pov) is entirely wrong. They just chose the wrong artist (from a very weak field) this year.
 
matt m said:
I won some money the year Portishead won. Can't remember what the odds were now, but it was just so OBVIOUSLY the best album by a country mile that it was a no-brainer to take a punt on. It was almost a bit of a joke that they even bothered to have a contest. The judges simply wouldn't have been able to look anyone in the eye ever again if they hadn't given it to Beth and her blokes.
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and yet M people beat Pulp........................
 
stupid dogbot said:
Yes, they sold a few more records, just like everyone who gets a nomination sticker does - that's the whole point of the awards.

However, suggesting that it made a massive difference to their careers is a stretch of a conclusion that only a complete know-nothing fuckwit like you could jump to...

Now fuck off back to your Coldplay records, you stupid twat.
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I'll have to disagree with this agressive fellow. Elbow headlined the last night of Bestival this year. There's no chance they would have done that in 2008, and I think it's fair to suggest that's as a result of the interest created by their Mercury Music Prize victory.

Please don't call me names.
 
gabi said:
Well, I think we're in agreement then. Financially, leaving aside the 20k prize, the band did very well out of it.

So the argument that the Mercury is pointless (from an entirely cynical, commercial pov) is entirely wrong. They just chose the wrong artist (from a very weak field) this year.
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You're still entirely overplaying the impact of the Mercury. The summer was spent building support and the album got a big push that coincided with the Mercury, but I suspect that push was in the offing anyway, the Mercury just sealed it.

The Mercury is NOT a proven route to success at all, it's just that very occasionally, the judges' decision coincides with what's happening in the real world
 
That would suggest that they'd never made a popular festival appearance before, though, surely?

Like, I dunno say, their massively popular Glastonbury appearance in 2002?

Look, my argument is this:

The Mercury Music Prize isn't a guarantee of success. Yes, it many garner a record a few more sales, but it won't massively affect the career of the majority of bands nominated in the long run. It's a commercial, industry backslapping award, with the intention of squeezing a few more sales out of records in the latter part of the year of their release, and as such of little real-world value, unless you're force fed your music tastes from the Sunday broadsheets.

:)
 
Get Involved said:
I'll have to disagree with this agressive fellow. Elbow headlined the last night of Bestival this year. There's no chance they would have done that in 2008, and I think it's fair to suggest that's as a result of the interest created by their Mercury Music Prize victory.
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i imagine their headlining Bestival is more directly a result of how phenomenally well they did on the festival circuit in 2008, where they were playing to massive crowds despite fairly modest stage times.

you and gabi don't seem to be looking at the massive amount of coverage they got ALL summer. You couldn't move for hearing "One Fine Day".
 
gabi said:
Well, I think we're in agreement then. Financially, leaving aside the 20k prize, the band did very well out of it.

So the argument that the Mercury is pointless (from an entirely cynical, commercial pov) is entirely wrong. They just chose the wrong artist (from a very weak field) this year.
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no. the prize is, if not pointless, at least meaningless. One fine Day was Elbow's breakthrough - not winning the Mercury Prize they just came on top of one another........................

ouchmonkey said:
wasn't anything to do with them finally writing a song people could sing along too was it?
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you know, the way all those other bands who've never been nominated for prizes do? by writing a song people like enough to investigate the album etc.
 
El Jefe said:
i imagine their headlining Bestival is more directly a result of how phenomenally well they did on the festival circuit in 2008, where they were playing to massive crowds despite fairly modest stage times.

you and gabi don't seem to be looking at the massive amount of coverage they got ALL summer. You couldn't move for hearing "One Fine Day".
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The "Official song of the Beijing Olympics" coverage, you mean?

:eek:
 
El Jefe said:
i imagine their headlining Bestival is more directly a result of how phenomenally well they did on the festival circuit in 2008, where they were playing to massive crowds despite fairly modest stage times.

you and gabi don't seem to be looking at the massive amount of coverage they got ALL summer. You couldn't move for hearing "One Fine Day".
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What I think you're not acknowledging is that yes, Elbow were, and always have been, big amongst afficinados and the music press. That doesn't equal massive record sales however.

My only point was that winning the prize pushed them into the mainstream, your £50 guy as you say, and as a result their bank accounts bulged. As such, yes, the Mercury still 'matters'.

I don't think the band would argue with that.
 
gabi said:
What I think you're not acknowledging is that yes, Elbow were, and always have been, big amongst afficinados and the music press.
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but not with massive TV coverage over a whole summer.

Sorry, you're wrong.

But there ya go...
 
ouchmonkey said:
no. the prize is, if not pointless, at least meaningless. One fine Day was Elbow's breakthrough - not winning the Mercury Prize they just came on top of one another........................
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Ok - if re-releasing the album and seeing it top the charts and winning the prize were entirely unconnected then I concede.. I suspect they're not however... could be wrong.
 
gabi said:
Ok - if re-releasing the album and seeing it top the charts and then winning the prize were entirely unconnected then I concede.. I suspect they're not however... could be wrong.
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i don't think anyone's sayint it's entirely unconnected, but it's not WHY they suddenly had success.

Please try and read what people have posted less selectively
 
Sadken said:
I do think it is hard as fuck for female British UKHH artists. That's three obstacles to overcome before they've even got on stage!
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Me and kitten out of twisted kitten were talking about this. The music industry as a whole is massively stacked against female artists as it is, even more so in hip hop.

I can't help thinking that lots of the whining about her winning the Mercury prize came from whiny white boys who were just hacked off that whiny white boys with guitars didn't win, instead of just being nice and saying stuff like:
woo! nice one lady. Your lyrics are ded good, and whilst you might not be a whiney white boy guitar band with a stupid name wittering on about fack knows what, it makes a nice change for me to listen to new music and make a proppa informed judgement on it
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Twisted Kitten are going to her gig at the Scale, FYI
 
Are you? Mind if I jump in on that then? Probably be unable to find anyone to go with cos it seems like basically none of my mates like hip hop any more, if they even ever did to start with. How the fuck did I end up surrounded by so many meat and potato indie fans? Total bane of my life...and they think MY music is shit! They actually do! Insania.

Definitely agree with your assessment, yeah.
 
pootle said:
The music industry as a whole is massively stacked against female artists as it is
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That's simply not true.

My fav artists at the mo are girls. And there's loadsa girls doing very well in the charts. I'm not sure you can bring sexism into the fact her record's not selling. It's just not that good.

Edit: actually you seem to have brought race into it as well, which aint cool
 
gabi said:
That's simply not true.

My fav artists at the mo are girls. And there's loadsa girls doing very well in the charts. I'm not sure you can bring sexism into the fact her record's not selling. It's just not that good.
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I don't think that the current load of women in the charts are doing that much or give that much of a shit about female empowerment, really. They strike me as a lot of puppets - in the same way a lot of male artists are, sure, but not to the same extent. I coined the term Amy Warehouse for them cos they seem to be popping off a production line, a lot of them or, at least, all gone to the same fucking school.

Viva la Winehouse, but the rest leave me cold.
 
As I said on the original thread, my main reason for not really being interested in Ms. Debelle is that there's nuff female MCs around that I'd rather listen to...
 
Sadken said:
Are you? Mind if I jump in on that then?
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Blates not! :) We've already got standing tix btw


Sadken said:
Probably be unable to find anyone to go with cos it seems like basically none of my mates like hip hop any more, if they even ever did to start with. How the fuck did I end up surrounded by so many meat and potato indie fans? Total bane of my life...and they think MY music is shit! They actually do! Insania.
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Tru dat. Lots of my mates are into psy-trance though, which is even worse. Twisted Kitten are on an edu-ma-cation mission though and we totally won some of the psy-trance and breakbeat kids round the last time we played Planet Angel.

Twisted Kitten are Girls, Girls, Girls, who are in fact Bigger Than Hip Hop :cool:
 
Sadken said:
I don't think that the current load of women in the charts are doing that much or give that much of a shit about female empowerment, really.
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Hmm, well I know Ladyhawke is very much a feminist, whether you like her music or not.. (which i very much do)
 
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