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Well-Known Member
What's the story with the police in Catalonia . In 2017 I recall the Mossos being sympathetic to voters, and senior cops even at risk of being sacked / jailed. They to be beating the shit out of protestors now.
 

sim667

Licking windows on the 303 bus.
What's the story with the police in Catalonia . In 2017 I recall the Mossos being sympathetic to voters, and senior cops even at risk of being sacked / jailed. They to be beating the shit out of protestors now.
There's a number of different forces in Catalonia..... Mossos d'esquadra, Policia Nacional, Policia Local, Guardia Urbana, Guardia Civil (although they mainly do border and large scale crime).

I don't think its the Mossos beating the shit out of the protestors, its much more likely to be Policia Nacional, although I'm not 100%. It doesn't look like Guardia, they're normally in green (military-esque police).
 

planetgeli

There's no future in England's dreaming
Catalonia general strike brings Barcelona to standstill

General strike brings Barcelona to a standstill. Airport shut down, youth have running battles with police on major thoroughfare which they plan to shut later today, further paralysing the city.

Judge orders shutdown of website and social media accounts of Tsunami Democratic who are coordinating the protests. This follows five successive nights of violence.

This is how you get heard and worry those in power.
 

Riklet

procrastinación
Solidarity with the protestors! Hope they give the airport another go. Id be amazed if this doesnt go on for weeks longer - will dominate the forthcoming elections. Presumably why Sanchez is playing hard.

What a corrupt charade. And yes it's clear from the press it's the Mossos beating people - they have already been disciplined and punished for previous support or dithering.
 

The39thStep

Well-Known Member
With a somewhat localised eye Portuguese TV have live coverage of Barcelona in a small box and the Benfica coach arriving for a League Cup game in the main screen .
 

sim667

Licking windows on the 303 bus.
And yes it's clear from the press it's the Mossos beating people
I asked on a video in /r/catalonia (catalan english speaking sub on reddit) and got the following response

This looks like Policia National. In general, mossos desquadra does not use inaprorpoate force, they do sometimes now recently as the leading officers got sacked after 1st october 2017, but not like other police whos habit is to use massive force and injured 1000s of peoples
Nacional and Mossos wear similar colour uniform, where as Civil wear green. There's also videos close up on a bus, and the clothing they're wearing does say Policia Nacional also.
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member


Interesting read. Critical of PSOE leader. Says he called off talks with Podemos that could have seen joint PSOE/ Podemos government. It wasn't Podemos fault.

That leadership in PSOE saw Podemos coalition as upsetting for big business/ Brussels

That Sanchez has been unwilling to go to the left.

Article is sympathetic to Podemos position.

Now Sanchez has to deal with growth of far right VOX success without increasing his share of the vote this time around. He was banking on getting more votes by moving to the centre.

This was written just before the election. Podemos did not do that well. Pushed into fourth place by Vox.

So the article is saying Sanchez miscalculated. He should have made coalition deal with Podemos first time around.
 
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The39thStep

Well-Known Member
Interesting read. Critical of PSOE leader. Says he called off talks with Podemos that could have seen joint PSOE/ Podemos government. It wasn't Podemos fault.

That leadership in PSOE saw Podemos coalition as upsetting for big business/ Brussels

That Sanchez has been unwilling to go to the left.

Article is sympathetic to Podemos position.

Now Sanchez has to deal with growth of far right VOX success without increasing his share of the vote this time around. He was banking on getting more votes by moving to the centre.

This was written just before the election. Podemos did not do that well. Pushed into fourth place by Vox.

So the article is saying Sanchez miscalculated. He should have made coalition deal with Podemos first time around.
I only have a surface understanding of the situation but in my view Sanchez now has further problems . Although Podemos lost seats but are are in a postion to demand more but even if there is an agreement doesnt give them the majority. That leaves only the liberal Ciudadanos who took a battering and may well elect a new leader or the potential for a difficult arrangement of some sort with Catalan Republican Left. Some have put Voxs surge down to anti regional independence especially the Catalonia issue.
 

Jeremiah18.17

Well-Known Member
The
What a stupid cunt he is.

It's not even any solace to see Ciudadanos do badly.
C’s have sounded increasingly fashy/aggressive over Catalunya in particular, no surprise that they should decline and Vox rise in those circumstances- right liberals “mainstream” fashy views and attitudes and the far right offer red meat for already whetted appetites- see also the “Libertarian/Alt Right” turn of much of the FDP in Germany and rise of the AFD.
 

littlebabyjesus

one of Maxwell's demons
As someone said: The Spanish electorate has been consulted often but not not listened to once.
Which bit would you have being listened to? The Podemos voters or Vox? PSOE or PP? The only message from these elections is that Spain is a country that is deeply divided politically. Well that's been true for the past 100 years, and it's not changing. It makes no sense to talk of an electorate as a unity in this way.
 

cathal marcs

Well-Known Member
Ciudadanos isn't some wishy-washy liberal party, calling them the Spanish Libdems is letting them off lightly, they are opportunistic right-wing pricks.

Almost all Ciudadanos voters I knew were exPP voters, who were pissed-off with corruption. Yesterday, they lost 47 seats, while PP and Vox gained 50 seats since April, almost a direct transfer of votes. The way I read the situation is that some voters have gone back to their natural home in the PP. While the hard-right flags on the balcony exPP voters who flirted with Cs in previous elections for their Spanish Nationalism find the Vox version even more appealing.

What will be interesting is how the PP react. Will they go further to the right to try and recuperate the voters who now vote Vox? Or, will they realise that Cs tried and failed to beat Vox at waving flags and try to occupy the centre-right?
 
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The39thStep

Well-Known Member
Ciudadanos isn't some wishy-washy liberal party, calling them the Spanish Libdems is letting them off lightly, they are opportunistic right-wing pricks.

Almost all Ciudadanos voters I knew were exPP voters, who were pissed-off with corruption. Yesterday, they 47 seats, while PP and Vox gained 50 seats since April, almost a direct transfer of votes. The way I read the situation is that some voters have gone back to their natural home in the PP. While the hard-right flags on the balcony exPP voters who flirted with Cs in previous elections for their Spanish Nationalism find the Vox version even more appealing.

What will be interesting is how the PP react. Will they go further to the right to try and recuperate the voters who now vote Vox? Or, will they realise that Cs tried and failed to beat Vox at waving flags and try to occupy the centre-right?
Thanks Cathal thats dead informative
 

JuanTwoThree

Bracing
Which bit would you have being listened to? The Podemos voters or Vox? PSOE or PP? The only message from these elections is that Spain is a country that is deeply divided politically. Well that's been true for the past 100 years, and it's not changing. It makes no sense to talk of an electorate as a unity in this way.
I think the long-term dissatisfaction that wasn't listened to was with the PSOE and the PP being increasingly interchangeable, corrupt, and neo-liberal. Needless to say I was happy with the rise of Podemos and would reluctantly have been with the anti-corruption version of the Cs. Their problem was that across the country they were anything from rebranded PP and every bit as as corrupt, through a cleaned up kind of Christian Democrat right up to rightists ripe for conversion into near-fascists. It all depended on who set up Ciudanos in a given place, and why. Ciudanos hasn't got a coherent 'brand'.

Another thing that wasn't listened to was that a leftish coalition is what everybody on the left wanted, except the PSOE leadership who got huffy.
.
 

cathal marcs

Well-Known Member
The only good thing about these elections is that a possible PSOE-Cs pact, which I think the PSOE leadership wanted, is off the table. Now the PSOE have no, but choice to form some form of government with Podemos, although with less parliamentary power than they would have had if they had formed a government this summer. Even if they agree to form a government, I wouldn't be surprised if there is another election within the next 18 months. Fingers crossed voters are as fickle as they have been over the last few years, and Vox implode as fast as they have risen.
 

JuanTwoThree

Bracing
It is but they get there with votes from the more progressive nationalists, if my maths is right. As long as they stay away from the independence issues (if they can!) they'll get votes for their policies. It's close though, so it'll be vote by vote, I suppose.

It's an unpalatable truth but fascists build things like social housing, so you can't assume that Vox will vote against everything proposed by lefties.
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
This will only make sense to
Spaniards or those well versed with Franco-era Spanish history, so apologies to all others, but it has made laugh no end... :D

Just shown this to my Spanish partner and she thought it was funny and spot on.

She said trouble is some Spanish people will think this "communist " government will destroy Spain.

She is really glad that at last Podemos and PSOE have worked out a deal. The tragedy of Spain has been that the right has been united and not the left.

Pablo Iglesias comes from her area. He cried when the new government officially took office. She was glad his party and PSOE are together he has worked so hard to get where he is.

She said the new leaders of her counntry are from the ordinary people of Spain. Not from the privileged backgrounds who supported Franco. Which is good.

Happens that Pablo Iglesias was named Pablo after the founder of the PSOE Pablo Iglesias Posse. My partners father, long time PSOE member , had picture of founder of PSOE on wall of home.
 
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