Spain vs Holland, World Cup Final !!!

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010 South Africa' started by Dandred, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    I couldn't care less about their success or not - i'm talking about their production.

    No, fanzine represented a minority pursuit at best (whilst sometimes being regionally or temporarily successful) they should not be taken as the majority view of football supporters at all.
     
  2. Diamond

    Diamond The Red Baron

    Well there's the nub.

    It's media. The more who see it, the better it is.
     
  3. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Never mind the passing; your post seemed to insinuate that

    Spain were lucky to win

    and it wasn't the first time they benefited from 'luck'

    all of which reeeks of either very sour grapes or a lack of understanding of the game.

    IMO Spain were far, far more deserving of winning that final than Holland- for a number of reasons. And they are very worthy winners of the trophy.
     
  4. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Why must people say shit like this? I have a better understanding of the game than the plebs. Save that for people who really don't have an understanding not those who understand and don't like, precisely because they do understand.
     
  5. Diamond

    Diamond The Red Baron

    How do you excavate class politics from that?
     
  6. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

  7. Diamond

    Diamond The Red Baron

  8. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    I'll put the imagined speech in italics:

    Why must people say shit like this? I have a better understanding of the game than the plebs. Save that for people who really don't have an understanding not those who understand and don't like, precisely because they do understand.
     
  9. ericjarvis

    ericjarvis give a feck for the feckless

    Nothing wrong with liking subtlety and skill football over aggression and athleticism. In England it's been the traditional clash between the working class version of the game and the posh upper/upper middle class approach. As characterised by Blackburn Rovers proving that the kick and rush of the public school old boys teams could be defeated by players using their brains rather than simply hacking at opponents way back in the late 19th century. Most of the great footballing teams throughout the history of English football were based in working class areas and supported by working class people.

    The great pre and post war Huddersfield and Wolves teams, Everton's school of science, West Ham's long tradition of class over clogging, even Barnsley's just like watching Brazil period, all a great example of a working class community taking a common pleasure in a shared art whilst simultaneously getting to stuff the other fuckers from whereever else.
     
  10. stupid dogbot

    stupid dogbot Haughty and Superior

    Thread descends into being about as interesting as the final itself was. :p
     
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    What has any of that got to do with Spain knocking the ball side to side all night though? It's an argument against them if anything - it shows that these sort of skills can be used to attack. Let's not be setting up these false oppositions of support spain's moral cowardice or support wimbledon. I can easily enough support neither
     
  12. ericjarvis

    ericjarvis give a feck for the feckless

    :hmm:
     
  13. Diamond

    Diamond The Red Baron

  14. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    I'm trying, i really am :(
     
  15. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Eh?
     
  16. Diamond

    Diamond The Red Baron

    You should read about the Victorian Scots.
     
  17. ericjarvis

    ericjarvis give a feck for the feckless

    I thought both Xavi and Iniesta didn't really get going at all until quite late in the second half. Pedro and Jesus Navas had more effect on the game, along with the two full backs. In the end it was the simple fact that Iniesta had support from team mates and Robben didn't that made the difference, but for over an hour Spain were blowing it most times it went to their star midfielders.
     
  18. ericjarvis

    ericjarvis give a feck for the feckless

    I'll tell you what. If Wales quakify for the 2014 finals and get through the group stages, I shall definetely go to Siberia. On foot.
     
  19. stupid dogbot

    stupid dogbot Haughty and Superior

    Fwiw, I mostly agree with you - I don't think it was an exciting display of football. I watched with a couple of neutrals and one very, very passionate Spain supporter and none of us thought it was an exciting game, or that there was much beautiful football. Opinions, eh?

    Spain in this tournament seemed to be missing that something (perhaps apart from Villa). Almost like, say, Barca without Lionel Messi...

    That isn't to say that they weren't the best side. Just that I perhaps expected them to be a little more cutting.
     
  20. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Spain were missing an in-form Torres!
     
  21. stupid dogbot

    stupid dogbot Haughty and Superior

    I suppose what I'm suggesting is that perhaps we haven't seen that team perform at its best... that we may in fact see better, more incisive football from them, as well as the passing.

    If that makes sense?
     
  22. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    I think ericjarvis is wondering how you could say Spain didn't play any football in the competition and then say you didn't watch the Spain-Germany game but it sounded like a great one.

    Which makes one kind of wonder how do you know Spain didn't play any football at all in the entire competiton when you didn't see all of its games, and how is it possible the Spain-Germany game was great if Spain apparently didn't play any football.
     
  23. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Sorry, i thought you meant the 3rd place play off. I misread.
     
  24. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Ask Luís Aragones if he thinks this team is anything like his, and he'll give you the same answer I will. In the whole tournament Spain scored 8 times in 7 games. That's fucking dire. You can't say a team that scored roughly once every hour and a half is exciting, even if they do keep the ball quite nicely.

    How many times can you say honestly that they deserved to give a team a real kicking? The Swiss? Because they bobbed in 20 long shots?

    If you look at the side that played at Euro 2008 they were attacking because they were setup to be attacking. Only one holding midfielder, two playmakers, a winger, two strikers picked in almost every game. Del Bosque picked two holding midfielders for every single game, one striker for half of them. This despite having comfortably the most talented squad in the competition. It's laughable to praise them for doing this.
     
  25. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    I think this is the crux of it - some would disagree with that is all.

    I guess for some watching intricate passing, watching a team dominate another, is as/more interesting as seeing goals. Different tastes :)

    But don't let that get in the way of a good barney ;)
     
  26. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    I agree that it comes down to different tastes. But Spain were not defensive. Their passing was always with a progressive intent. They lacked a little of the incisiveness of the 08 team, and they missed Senna – a holding midfielder who also possessed good vision. Not sure why he wasn't playing this year. He was the player of the tournament in 08, imo.
     
  27. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    I think if you're wrong if you're seeing the debate as being between passing football and hoofball. Like I've said, Aragones' team playing "tikitaka" were great to watch - it was patient when it needed to be, but got quicker and more intricate in the final third (because they had the players to play that way). Spain's passing has been ponderous, seldom intricate (passing the ball sideways on the halfway line is not intricacy) and generally they've looked tedious, risk averse, cynical and uninspiring. Worse that they've been set up tactically to be so.
     
  28. Streathamite

    Streathamite ideological dogmatist

    2 bonuses for us gooners
    a) cesc added 5 mil to the value of the eventual fee tapupalona will eventually shell out and
    2) he got a revealing glimpse into what life will be like at the Nou Camp for him. Think on it fab, 2 years spent warming the bench and praying for Iniesta to get crocked
     
  29. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    grrr, you're all barking! There's nothing progressive about asking all the non-attacking players you've put on to play triangles in the sodding centre circle!
     
  30. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    That's overstating your case.

    That said, for periods yesterday, I was screaming at them to commit more players to attacks. But they missed an in-form Torres. Any team would miss an in-form Torres.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice