Spaghetti Bolognese showdown

[Chairman Meow]

Whatever you do, spag bol must:

a) Be left for at least a day after it is initially cooked to allow the flavour to develop.

QUOTE]

Agree with this, and I am also in the no-carrots whatsoever camp.

I don't really have a recipe and I make my spag bol in bulk and portion it so there is always some in the freezer. Its along these lines though

Big load of beef mince [say 3-4lbs]
onions
garlic
tinned tomatoes
passata
red wine [lots]
lemon juice
fresh basil
salt / pepper
dash worcerstershire sauce [if available]

Simmer for ages till wine has reduced, leave to cool. Portion and freeze next day [or eat].

Served with home made garlic bread and spag.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why is everyone sticking Worcester Sauce in an Italian dish? Those eyeties know how to cook. Listen to them. If your sauce tastes shit, you've done it wrong. Brits think they can save everything with a stock cube or a dash of W sauce or even fecking ketchup

 

[citydreams]

ooo.. ketchup in bagy spol, haven't done that in ages.. yum!

works in meatloaf too

 

[hiccup]

Why is everyone sticking Worcester Sauce in an Italian dish? ...

Cos it tastes nice.

 

[dirtysanta]

Me? Do my research? Bugger off! Tomatoes are a sweet/sour fruit, so while they have a natural tartness they also have a sweetness that offsets that, which is why they taste so nice. Completely unecessary to add sugar, especially when it's a dish that has shallots/onions in it - both of which caramalise nicely.

Tomatoes have PH rating less than 5. That makes them acidic. You will find most knowledgable chefs recommend adding a small amount of sugar to dishes containing a strong tomato base.

x 10 +



<escorts Cid to a 'Spag Bog for Beginners' thread>

 

[Orang Utan]

It's nice on cheese on toast, but I wouldn't use it for anything else

 

[SubZeroCat]

Brits think they can save everything with a stock cube or a dash of W sauce or even fecking ketchup

I hate people who put ketchup on stuff!!

Boyf does this with my lovingly home made mash that's already been yummified with real butter, milk, pepper and sea salt. It makes my heart sink when I see people ruin their meals with that devil sauce.

 

[catrina]

And a true Soffritto being as I understand, is chopped onions & garlic lightly fried in olive oil.

from Wikipedia:

Soffritto (literally "sub-fried" in Italian) forms the base of most common Italian dishes. It consists of aromatic ingredients sautéed with cooking oil. The basic soffritto is prepared with olive oil, chopped onions (or scallions) and sometimes chopped garlic cloves. According to the recipe or the regional preference, olive oil may be replaced with butter or both may be used. The next step is to add extra ingredients to the soffritto. There is a great variety of options, such as vegetables (carrots, celery, artichokes, etc.), mushrooms, prosciutto, tuna, olives and so on, but these are not chosen arbitrarily since they are usually considered the ingredients giving a meal its distinct character

and again from Wikipedia (although this is not where my recipe is sourced):

Recipes differ greatly from a very classic and time-consuming ragù alla bolognese to a much simpler and quicker sugo di carne (‘meat sauce’). A simple but authentic form of ragù alla bolognese may be made as follows.

Prepare a soffritto of carrots, onions and celery—of which a sautéed mirepoix is merely one example—and other aromatics in olive oil.

I fry up my carrot, celery onion mixture first, and then at the very last minute if I'm feeling adventerous I add 1 clove garlic minced. If you add it with everything else it just burns and you have to start over.

actually wikipedia's recipe is very similar to the one I use.

 

[Cid]

And a true Soffritto being as I understand, is chopped onions & garlic lightly fried in olive oil.

It does vary depending on region and dish (although additions aren't usually seen as part of the soffritto) but yep. At any rate any additions to a soffritto should be finely chopped, not in bloody great chunks.

 

[hiccup]

It's nice on cheese on toast, but I wouldn't use it for anything else

Not even a bloody mary?

 

[Chairman Meow]

My mad sister-in-law went to Bali on honeymoon to one of those 5 star all inclusive joints, with loads of restaurants. Only one restaurant had ketchup, so guess where they had to eat for EVERY meal? Silly bint - she though it was funny!

 

[hiccup]

I have to admit I love ketchup. It's a wonder condiment. Sweet, salty and vinegary all at the same time.

 

[SubZeroCat]

I have to admit I love ketchup. It's a wonder condiment. Sweet, salty and vinegary all at the same time.

Pff s'all about the mayo man

And Dijon mustard for sausages mmmh.

Anyone had any real saucisses de Toulouse? Best sausages in the world ever. Perfect with Dijon mustard.

Mayo and ketchup mixed together is nice

[/total derail]

 

[Cid]

from Wikipedia:



and again from Wikipedia (although this is not where my recipe is sourced):



I fry up my carrot, celery onion mixture first, and then at the very last minute if I'm feeling adventerous I add 1 clove garlic minced. If you add it with everything else it just burns and you have to start over.

actually wikipedia's recipe is very similar to the one I use.

Ah yes wiki, the greatest source of true Italian cooking in the world...

At any rate I said it's no problem using finely chopped carrots/celery as part of a base... Carrots add a little natural sweetness (the celery is alittle more pointless though imo), it's just in England a lot of people seem to think it's ok to use chunks of the things.

 

[hiccup]

I like mayo and mustard also. I embrace all such condimentation.

 

[tarannau]

And a true Soffritto being as I understand, is chopped onions & garlic lightly fried in olive oil.

Nah, that's just garlic and onions fried in olive oil...



Still, my understanding off Soffritto is that it always contains celery and carrots for added depth and sweetness. More relevantly, soffrittos in Bologna always seem to contain carrots and celery, which kind of necessitates them in an 'authentic' bolognese.

Still, I can't say I make many proper bolognese sauce batches. I suspect, like most of you, I eat red tomato-based meat sauce most of the time. It's not 'authentic,' nor really a bolognese, but it's reassuring anglicised-Italian fodder.

 

[SubZeroCat]

I like mayo and mustard also. I embrace all such condimentation.

Sainsbury's used to sell Benedicta mayonnaise. The god of all mayonnaise, but they stopped

 

[Orang Utan]

I hate people who put ketchup on stuff!!

Boyf does this with my lovingly home made mash that's already been yummified with real butter, milk, pepper and sea salt. It makes my heart sink when I see people ruin their meals with that devil sauce.

With you there 100%. It should only be used on bacon sarnies and burgers.

 

[Cid]

Nah, that's just garlic and onions fried in olive oil...



Still, my understanding off Soffritto is that it always contains celery and carrots for added depth and sweetness. More relevantly, soffrittos in Bologna always seem to contain carrots and celery, which kind of necessitates them in an 'authentic' bolognese.

That would be wrong then... A soffritto is literally just the aromatic ingredients of a sauce very lightly fried (sub-fried in fact). Bolognese is essentially a leftovers dish and there is actually no 'true' way of cooking it. As it's cucina povera you'll basically find whatever happens to be to hand stuck in for flavour.

Still, I can't say I make many proper bolognese sauce batches. I suspect, like most of you, I eat red tomato-based meat sauce most of the time. It's not 'authentic,' nor really a bolognese, but it's reassuring anglicised-Italian fodder.

As I say there is no true Italian Bolognese - Italian cooking doesn't just vary from region to region, it varies from street to street... Some will spit at the use of anything except the freshest tomatoes whilst others will argue that a puree allows for the best combination of tomato flavour with stock flavour.

 

[Cid]

Pff s'all about the mayo man

And Dijon mustard for sausages mmmh.

Anyone had any real saucisses de Toulouse? Best sausages in the world ever. Perfect with Dijon mustard.

Mayo and ketchup mixed together is nice

[/total derail]

Well you can at least make your own ketchup... Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall has a good one:

Use it to accompany burgers, sausages, and plain grilled fish and chicken, but always with enormous self-satisfaction bordering on smugness.

Ingredients
6kg/13lb ripe tomatoes, roughly chopped
8 medium onions, peeled, halved and sliced
2 large red peppers, seeds and white filament removed, chopped
150g/5oz soft brown sugar
500ml/17fl oz cider vinegar
½ tsp large piece of cinnamon stick
1 tbsp whole allspice
1 tbsp whole cloves
1 tbsp ground mace
1 tbsp celery seeds
1 tbsp black peppercorns
2 bay leaves
1 garlic clove, peeled and bruised
salt
paprika, to taste (optional)


Method
1. Combine the tomatoes, onion and peppers in a large heavy pan over a medium heat and simmer, stirring occasionally, until very soft. Push through a coarse-mesh sieve and return to the pot with the sugar, vinegar and mustard. Tie the cinnamon, allspice, cloves, mace, celery seeds, black peppercorns, bay leaves and garlic in a square of muslin and drop it into the stew. Bring the mixture to the boil, then reduce to a slow simmer. Continue to cook, allowing it to bubble gently, stirring often and carefully, for at least 10-20 minutes, until thoroughly blended and quite thick.
2. Leave to cool, remove the muslin bag of spices, then pour the mixture through a funnel into suitable bottles. Stored in the fridge this ketchup will keep for a month. If you follow the prescribed procedure for preserves and bottle in properly sterilised jars, it should keep for a year.

Use it as you would any commercial tomato ketchup, to accompany burgers, sausages, and plain grilled fish and chicken, but always with enormous self-satisfaction bordering on smugness.

nicked from BBC food.

 

[Structaural]

...but always with enormous self-satisfaction bordering on smugness.

That pretty much sums up Who Furry-WhitteringOn

 

[Orang Utan]

Not even a bloody mary?

Oh yeah, don't tend to make those at home though

 

[dirtysanta]

nicked from BBC food.

Outrageous. Nothing worse than folk c+p'ing receipes off the web to pass off as their own.

 

[SubZeroCat]

That pretty much sums up Who Furry-WhitteringOn

Damn sight better watching him on telly than Tourette's suffering anger ridden Gordon Ramsey, gnome face nasal voiced Anthony Worral Thompson or any other chef....

James Martin makes me laugh cos he puts butter, cream, sugar, fat etc in everything

 

[Cid]

Outrageous. Nothing worse than folk c+p'ing receipes off the web to pass off as their own.

Bugger off sugar-boy...

 

[dirtysanta]

Bugger off sugar-boy...

(((Cid)))

 

[catrina]

Ah yes wiki, the greatest source of true Italian cooking in the world...

At any rate I said it's no problem using finely chopped carrots/celery as part of a base... Carrots add a little natural sweetness (the celery is alittle more pointless though imo), it's just in England a lot of people seem to think it's ok to use chunks of the things.

I posted from there because I would not be surprised if that recipe was copied from the cookbook I use, the Williams-Sonoma Pasta series. My Italian other half confers.

And Bolognese is not made from leftovers or whatever's lying around. It is the base for many lasagnes in addition to spaghetti. However, spaghetti and meatballs, or polpette, are (more popular in Italian-American cuisine). (Further info from other half).

A true Bolognese gets its red colour more from the carrots than the tomatoes.

Ketchup is just wrong with most things, but it should certainly go nowhere near an Italian dish. I don't mind a ketchup-mayo combination on my burgers and with chips, but anywhere else *puke*.

 

[Pie 1]

Damn Wikipedia

I will not concede on the British habit of bloody great chunks of the stuff though - that is still just wrong.

 

[Structaural]

Damn sight better watching him on telly than Tourette's suffering anger ridden Gordon Ramsey, gnome face nasal voiced Anthony Worral Thompson or any other chef....

James Martin makes me laugh cos he puts butter, cream, sugar, fat etc in everything

or that spikey haired twat who makes the simpliest cooking as complicated as brain surgery.

Nigel Slaters my favourite - probably because he's never been on telly.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

all those non belivers should try their spaghetti with celery and carrots

2 onions, 1 carrot, 1/2 stick celery ratio.

If it's crap it's crap, BUt TRUST you will be converted.

Bung it in the food processor to make a kind of paste Or chop it up REALLY REALLY small.

it is good.