Sopranos is the best tv program ever?

[badlands]

Twin Peaks is arguably the most influential television programme of the modern era. Without its existence The Sopranos and The Wire simply would simply not exist. Twin Peaks tore up the television rule book and opened the flood gates to a multitude of excellent, off beat, thought provoking drama. It had brilliant directing and incredible scripts that raised the bar to a new level. Its a prime example of how the film industry makes television a lot better than the tv industry themselves. Even in the consistently excellent Sopranos the best episode was directed by Steve Buscemi.

 

[skyscraper101]

Nope, Flight of the Conchords easily bests em... soon to hit these shores im sure.

some of u might have seen their stand up act, but 2 months in in the states on HBP this shit is rockin it..



funny, funny shit.

I saw Flight Of The Conchords first 3 episodes on HBO. Its ok. hasn't really grabbed me much yet though which supprised me cos the trailer looked brilliant and was showing in the cinemas in NYC when I was over there.

 

[kained&able]

nsoos i have all of the wire sitting on my hardrive. Ask nicely and i will check them on a dvd or three. It really is amazing. You will definatly love it fella.

24, the wire, CSI, The shield are all up there with sopranos all fucking amazing.


dave

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I can't decide whether to buy the wire from amazon or sign up to blockboster home delivery again. Hmm.

Do the blockbuster downloads time limited? You will undoubtedly want to watch the programme again - it's so densely layered that you really do pick up more on a repeat viewing.

Also, you might want to use subtitles for the first few episodes until you start to get used to the slang, strong accents and muttering. I'm serious. Every line is important. They will mention something in passing in one episode and twenty episodes later it can become important.

I love the Sopranos, but I've never seen a better television drama than the Wire.

 

[Reno]

Twin Peaks is arguably the most influential television programme of the modern era. Without its existence The Sopranos and The Wire simply would simply not exist.

Twin Peaks was an influential show no doubt, but I'd say Hill Street Blues had more of an influence on the likes of The Wire, The Sopranos and many other shows. Blues introduced seriously flawed lead characters, controversial subject matter and ongoing storylines to non-soapopera genre shows which previously resolved their stories within each episode.

 

[London_Calling]

The Wire is also, to the best of my knowledge, what is effectively the first (a) made for DVD (b) book-as-a-film (c) <insert name for concept>.

In fact, imo, conceptually speaking, it makes cinema look cheap – how can you even scratch the surface of a serious subject in 2 hours at the local Multiplex ?

In the end, it'll have five Chapters - or symphonic movements, or Acts, or Triptych panels (+2) or Shakespearian tragedies, the bad news is the 5th isn't due until next year.

I could talk about The Wire all week long, but the best summary I have now is that I've never been able to appreciate such complete artistic integrity before, to grasp so much of what is before me; I may have been in the presence of such quality before but this, for me, is artistically accessible in a way Mahler isn’t, or some opera, or even, I dunno, Middlemarch wasn’t – yus, for me, it’s a modern ‘great work’.

Fwiw, I have the last 2 episodes of S4 remaining . . .

 

[London_Calling]

Twin Peaks was an influential show no doubt, but I'd say Hill Street Blues had more of an influence on the likes of The Wire

I dunno about this; visually and structurally they're opposites - HSB was weekly episodic and all hand-held shots. And, TBF, if HSB invented flawed lead characters I don't know what the Greeks and Shakespeare were up to.

What I would say is that both HSB and The Wire were/are ‘fresh’, for their time; what HSB was to the 80s, the early <ginger lead male/cop show> was to the 90s and The Wire is to the 0s - they def have that 'new approach'/cutting edge drama tag in common.

 

[kained&able]

you dont needs subs for the wire its set in bolimore not bangalopor. IO don't get why so many people can't understand the wire. Tis pretty normal yankease surely?


dave

 

[Dillinger4]

Also, you might want to use subtitles for the first few episodes until you start to get used to the slang, strong accents and muttering. I'm serious. Every line is important. They will mention something in passing in one episode and twenty episodes later it can become important.

I keep getting told this, but the only person I have trouble understanding is Snoop.

 

[Orang Utan]

nsoos i have all of the wire sitting on my hardrive. Ask nicely and i will check them on a dvd or three. It really is amazing. You will definatly love it fella.

24, the wire, CSI, The shield are all up there with sopranos all fucking amazing.


dave

ooh, what if I ask nicely for season 4? I would love you forever if you could sort me out. I'm sure I could reciprocate. I have a huge resource of films at my disposal.

 

[fear-n-loathing]

only ever watched it a couple of times so never really got into it.

 

[Reno]

I dunno about this; visually and structurally they're opposites - HSB was weekly episodic and all hand-held shots. And, TBF, if HSB invented flawed lead characters I don't know what the Greeks and Shakespeare were up to.

How are they opposites ? Hill Street Blues introduced all the elements that The Wire, The Shield, The Sopranos, ER, LA Law and every other modern ensembe drama built on. In fact with the exception of soap operas there were no ensemble dramas until HSB. In the 70's cop- and all other genre shows focused on one or two leads and the cops were square jawed heroes or lovable rogues. They didn't struggle with alcoholism or cheat on their wives as the cops in HSB did.

HSB wasn't shot with handheld cameras, though it had a cinematic quality to it that was new and is still evident in something like The Wire or The Sopranos. Devices like overlapping dialogue and the style of editing were modelled on feature films rather than on other TV shows. Sure individual cases were often resolved within an episode, but the ongoing story of the leads and some minor characters were continuous, spanning whole seasons and that was completely new in a cop show when HSB came along. As HSB went on over the years it became more and more dramatically complex. At the time, like The Wire now, it was the most critically acclaimed US TV show.

PS: I think it's generally understood that we are talking about TV shows here, not about Greek tragedy or Shakespeare, so no reason to get patronising.

 

[trabuquera]

don't want to repeat the whole love-in thread, but basically what all the posters up there ^^^^^^ said: Sopranos is classy, but the Wire is head and shoulders above it. End of

 

[JoePolitix]

The Wire

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2iGYwdEi8

 

[Pie 1]

Off the cuff I'm another vote for 'Yes - but The Wire is better'.

But... the Soprano's effectively paved the way & without it, The Wire (& the rest of the HBO stable) would never have been made.
Maybe we forget what a huge financial gamble Soprano's was for HBO - if it'd bombed, it would have taken HBO with it.
So in that respect, probably the best TV ever made.

 

[camouflage]

I think the Sopranos is really well produced and directed, and I love the opening credits when fat-boy drives to work enjoyin his cigar, but I don't actually like any of the characters in the show, they're all complete arseholes, really dislikable jerks the lot of em. I only watch these wankers screw eachother over out of a kind of sick fascination similar to watching a car-wreck or a street attack. And I'm none too pleased about the way that show's made me feel about Italian Americans either.

I liked that episode where the shrink had been raped, and the next time she saw Tony we saw her struggling not to tell him about it, even though she knew that by doing so she could have the rapist destroyed with absolute vengeance. I thought that was a powerful moment.

I think I hated Christopher the most.

 

[Reno]

I think the Sopranos is really well produced and directed, and I love the opening credits when fat-boy drives to work enjoyin his cigar, but I don't actually like any of the characters in the show, they're all complete arseholes, really dislikable jerks the lot of em. I only watch these wankers screw eachother over out of a kind of sick fascination similar to watching a car-wreck or a street attack. And I'm none too pleased about the way that show's made me feel about Italian Americans either.

I liked that episode where the shrink had been raped, and the next time she saw Tony we saw her struggling not to tell him about it, even though she knew that by doing so she could have the rapist destroyed with absolute vengeance. I thought that was a powerful moment.

I think I hated Christopher the most.

For me that the show remains gripping despite the fact that it's difficult to completely identify with the characters is one of its strenghts. Those people are supposed to be dislikable, that's the point. At best they are opportunist at worst they are thieves, torturers and murderers and Christopher is written to be the most loathsome regular character in the show. I don't really need to like the characters to enjoy something though, I just have to understand them and all of them have universal character traits that are relatable on some level.

The debate about about the representation of Italian Amercians has been going on since it first aired. The characters are so well written and acted that they transcend stereotypes and unlike blacks or other minorites it's not like Italian American's suffer from a lot of persecution in the US, so I can't say I'm that fussed.

 

[Deareg]

i used to think it was the best until i started watching deadwood now i think it is the 2nd best

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Twin Peaks was an influential show no doubt, but I'd say Hill Street Blues had more of an influence on the likes of The Wire, The Sopranos and many other shows. Blues introduced seriously flawed lead characters, controversial subject matter and ongoing storylines to non-soapopera genre shows which previously resolved their stories within each episode.

I think Twin Peaks influenced in what not to do, as much as it did in what to do.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Another influential show: Northern Exposure.

 

[London_Calling]

How are they opposites ? Hill Street Blues introduced all the elements that The Wire, The Shield, The Sopranos, ER, LA Law and every other modern ensembe drama built on. In fact with the exception of soap operas there were no ensemble dramas until HSB.

Oh, contraire - just as a starter. Started in 1962.

In the 70's cop- and all other genre shows focused on one or two leads and the cops were square jawed heroes or lovable rogues. They didn't struggle with alcoholism or cheat on their wives as the cops in HSB did.

Rly, see above.

HSB wasn't shot with handheld cameras

It started out that way and lost the main director. Struggled to maintain that characteristic but did so spasmodically.

PS: I think it's generally understood that we are talking about TV shows here, not about Greek tragedy or Shakespeare, so no reason to get patronising.

I'm not, but if you are then "Blues introduced seriously flawed lead characters" is still wrong. I didn't mean to partonise.

But now you're probably going to tell me you're only taking about (a) USA TV drama (c) mainstream/network series (c) cops and robbers.

 

[badlands]

I think Twin Peaks influenced in what not to do, as much as it did in what to do.

Absolutely. And wasn't it all the more glorious for that. Lynch was pushing the envelope. Sometimes it came off, sometimes not. But it was always challenging.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Absolutely. And wasn't it all the more glorious for that. Lynch was pushing the envelope. Sometimes it came off, sometimes not. But it was always challenging.

Twin Peaks was a hugely ambitious show that bit off more than it could chew. It was fascinating and very enjoyable in the early going, until you came to realize that it couldn't be continued as a sustainable alternate reality.

 

[Pie 1]

I think I hated Christopher the most.

He's the best character in the show. Period.

 

[Groucho]

Twin Peaks is the best TV show ever. It has never been matched.
The Avengers is great, as was The Prisoner. The Water Margin was really good.
Sure the Sopranos was ok.
I've not seen the much rated The Wire yet...

 

[Reno]

But now you're probably going to tell me you're only taking about (a) USA TV drama

Yup, as Z-cars wasn't seen in the US and therefore couldn't have had much of an influence on The Wire, etc which is what I was talking about. Next time I'll get a laywer to verify averything I post on here just so there is no chance that I will be misunderstood by someone who doesn't follow the general gist of the thread.

 

[London_Calling]

Yup, as Z-cars wasn't seen in the US and therefore couldn't have had much of an influence on The Wire, etc which is what we we're talking about.

I should have expected that.

Of course, the US market had no interest and learned nothing from British product at all in the 60s, including film, music, theatre and TV. In terms of TV, top of my head how about Till Death us do Part in the late 60s becoming All in the Family ?

Not the right genre for you, I'm sure.

 

[Reno]

I should have expected that.

Of course, the US market had no interest and learned nothing from British product at all in the 60s, including film, music, theatre and TV. In terms of TV, top of my head how about Till Death us do Part in the late 60s becoming All in the Family ?

Not the right genre for you, I'm sure.

Ok, ok, it was Z-Cars and not Hill Street Blues that had a direct influence on LA Law, Homicide, The Wire etc. Whatever it takes to shut you up.

 

[London_Calling]

It wasn't Z cars either. That was just the first thing that came to mind.

It's just the notion that HSB "invented" the ensemble cast . . . people shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet.

 

[Reno]

It wasn't Z cars either. That was just the first thing that came to mind.

It's just the notion that HSB "invented" the ensemble cast . . . people shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet.

I didn't read it on the internet you twat, I'm old enought to have experienced television before and after Hill Street Blues, seeing the tremendous influence it had myself and how US television evolved afterwards.