'Sons and daughters' housing policy in Tower Hamladesh?

[Dravinian]

When were you a local person?

All you've told us so far (and that was elicited with great difficulty) was that your mum & dad lived with your nan in Bethnal Green when they got married and then moved out to Essex cos they couldn't get a council house/flat.

Does it matter?

How is it relevent?

It simply isn't.

You lied about what I said in post 35.

Second time Cesare.

Now you want to change the subject as to when I left Tower Hamlets?

Lets get back to how you said that post stated the opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

You said it did, I say it didn't, show me how you are right?

 

[Kizmet]

This post makes it sound like you think people not from the UK and people who aren't white should get higher priority for housing, purely because of being from outside the UK or being a different colour. Boy, the BNP would LOVE it if the council adopted that policy!

It's way o complicated for me to be making that statement.

I was just addressing rutita's point about need being culturaly and racially blind. Which I don't agree with.

 

[ajdown]

. Being near your community and your extended family is a need.

Not for everyone. I am 200+ miles away from my family and don't "suffer" for it at all, except a couple of times a year when I have to suffer the A303 to go and see them.

To some other cultures, you may have a point ... but you can't apply your argument to everyone.

 

[scifisam]

Not for everyone. I am 200+ miles away from my family and don't "suffer" for it at all, except a couple of times a year when I have to suffer the A303 to go and see them.

To some other cultures, you may have a point ... but you can't apply your argument to everyone.

Of course not. I never said anyone should be forced to live near their families. But you might find that your need increases once you have kids or once your parents (or other relations) get old and need help. I mean, maybe you won't ever be in that situation, but most people will eventually.

 

[cesare]

Does it matter?

How is it relevent?

It simply isn't.

You lied about what I said in post 35.

Second time Cesare.

Now you want to change the subject as to when I left Tower Hamlets?

Lets get back to how you said that post stated the opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

You said it did, I say it didn't, show me how you are right?

It is relevant because of #35:

You don't seem to understand that we were forced to move out by being on a housing list that did not prioritise local people.

The council is now saying that this was wrong, and that they plan to change it so that housing does prioritise local people.

So I am saying, ok so shouldn't I be allowed back in.

You seem to think because I am white I shouldn't be given the same priority as local people to live in Tower Hamlets. Even though I was one until I was forced to move out by the local housing policy, which the Council has just stated was wrong.

If I was wronged, shouldn't I be entitled to expect the council to make that right?

'We were forced to move out'. Or 'I was forced to move out'?

Were you even born when your mum and dad moved out to Essex from your nan's place?

 

[Dravinian]

It is relevant because of #35:

'We were forced to move out'. Or 'I was forced to move out'?

Were you even born when your mum and dad moved out to Essex from your nan's place?

You are trying to change the subject.

You stated that post 35 expressed an opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

Now you want to change the subject?

If it REALLY matters I was about 3 months old when my parents left Tower Hamlets.

Also my claim was that we were forced out as LOCAL people, not white people, I never suggested we never got a place because we were white.

 

[cesare]

You are trying to change the subject.

You stated that post 35 expressed an opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

Now you want to change the subject?

If it REALLY matters I was about 3 months old when my parents left Tower Hamlets.

Also my claim was that we were forced out as LOCAL people, not white people, I never suggested we never got a place because we were white.

You described yourself as an 'ex-local person' at 3 months old when your parents moved out and positioned that as a reason for you being given the same priority as current local residents now. Lol.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Lets get back to how you said that post stated the opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

You said it did, I say it didn't, show me how you are right?

You stated that post 35 expressed an opinion that non-whites were getting something whites were not.

If you think about the context of what locals were then and what they are now, it does. You can claim that is by coincidence, of course.

If it REALLY matters I was about 3 months old when my parents left Tower Hamlets.

Also my claim was that we were forced out as LOCAL people, not white people, I never suggested we never got a place because we were white.

How long had your parents been waiting to be rehoused, how big was your nan's house? The answers to these question may help a bit to understand why they seemingly had not accumulated enough housing points.

 

[Dravinian]

If you think about the context of what locals were then and what they are now, it does. You can claim that is by coincidence, of course.

How long had your parents been waiting to be rehoused, how big was your nan's house? The answers to these question may help a bit to understand why they seemingly had not accumulated enough housing points.

They are in the same position that almost all of my friends are in right now.

They had a roof over their head. They are competing with people who do not. They can't get housing above those people without having some sort of extra thing attached to it.

Now don't get me wrong, I have already agreed that I believe in social housing based on need while there are not enough, and lets build more. So I am not suggesting it was unfair or not right. It was what it was and what it is, but they were effectively, unless they wanted to live with their mom for god knew how long, forced to look outside the borough for housing.

 

[Dravinian]

If you think about the context of what locals were then and what they are now, it does. You can claim that is by coincidence, of course.

This is my last comment on this aspect of the argument, because I feel it got a bit harsh for a bit there.

I think there has to be an intent there, and in my post I believe there was none. Also I don't believe there was any intent in your posts either, but that is my last word on that aspect of the argument. I will continue to debate other aspects, such as the post above, but not this subject.

 

[Treacle Toes]

They are in the same the position that almost all of my friends are in right now.

They had a roof over their head. They are competing with people who do not. They can't get housing above those people without having some sort of extra thing attached to it.

Now don't get me wrong, I have already agreed that I believe in social housing based on need while there are not enough, and lets build more. So I am not suggesting it was unfair or not right. It was what it was and what it is, but they were effectively, unless they wanted to live with their mom for god knew how long, forced to look outside the borough for housing.

Many have been in this position and continue to be so now.
Their housing points would have increased the older you got, the more kids they had etc. depending on the size of your nan's property.

Tower Hamlets had and still continues to have a lot of people in need of housing, whilst the point system seems unfair when you are the one on the waiting list, what other way would you suggest?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is the real point, isn't it? That for ideological reasons, government has in recent decades deliberately refused to attempt to meet the demand for council housing, going so far as to prohibit councils from even attempting to meet that demand. Odd how those who champion supremacy of supply and demand ignore the continuing and increasing demand for council housing.

 

[Dravinian]

Many have been in this position and continue to be so now.
Their housing points would have increased the older you got, the more kids they had etc. depending on the size of your nan's property.

Tower Hamlets had and still continues to have a lot of people in need of housing, whilst the point system seems unfair when you are the one on the waiting list, what other way would you suggest?

if you had read to the bottom you would know my answer

Yeah perhaps they did end up having 3 kids, so I think eventually they would have reached the top of the list, I just think it was unrealistic to expect my mom and dad with a child on the way to live with my nan and my moms 3 sisters and their brother.

You know i couldn't tell you how big the house was. By the time I was old enough to be visiting my nan and remembering it, in terms of how many bedrooms it had, she was living with one of my aunts and their family.

To be honest I think my family is a good example of movement of the white population from the east end during the 60-90s, you can see the spread of my family across the whole of the east from Bethnal Green all the way out to Clacton and splattered all the way down the line. I remember quite a few of the dwellings, roughly speaking, and you can see the move out towards essex has been relentless for many years.

My sister is now looking in Chelmsford for a place to live, she doesn't really want to spend so much money and so much time on the train to get to work every day, but she really hasn't got much choice, even on a good salary she cannot afford to buy in London, rent but that has drawbacks in the long term, and she can't get high enough on any council waiting list to get a home. So is basically forced by circumstance to move further out. Though it seems if she waits a bit, she might be able to pick up a bargain.

 

[Treacle Toes]

if you had read to the bottom you would know my answer

.

Oh I see, you mean this

Now don't get me wrong, I have already agreed that I believe in social housing based on need while there are not enough, and lets build more.

If the council continues to sell off land and properties they will be no space available to build more.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yup. It's the docks, basically. Plus there were old laws preventing certain trades like leatherwork inside the city of London, so traders set up just outside - which is why there are still so many leather shops around Brick Lane and shops wholesaling leather goods in the wider area. These trades were often conducted by people from certain ethnic groups, because their countries had the necessary goods more than the UK did.

Also, of course, most of the Roman roads north of the Thames terminate there, so internal trade needed warehousing, and most of the East Anglian and fenland drover's routes went through, so stockyards were needed to "feed" the animals to the meat markets.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not for everyone. I am 200+ miles away from my family and don't "suffer" for it at all, except a couple of times a year when I have to suffer the A303 to go and see them.

To some other cultures, you may have a point ... but you can't apply your argument to everyone.

While I agree that the argument can't be applied to everyone, it's certainly not predominantly a cultural issue. It's still very much a class issue in rural areas as well as urban settings.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is the real point, isn't it? That for ideological reasons, government has in recent decades deliberately refused to attempt to meet the demand for council housing, going so far as to prohibit councils from even attempting to meet that demand. Odd how those who champion supremacy of supply and demand ignore the continuing and increasing demand for council housing.

Or rather, it isn't odd at all if you're a government in thrall to the market that succeeded a government in thrall to the market.

How soon until housing riots, do you think?

 

[durruti02]

At what point in the process of population change does the policy cease to be Ray Cyst and start to be beneficial? After 20% of the families that would benefit are non-white? When 30% are? 40%? 50% 60% ...

Or are you willing to support 'sons and daughters' policies even where the population of the area is "hideously white"?

i am .. and equally in a 100% bengali area .. imho it's about keeping community .. the other issues of building more homes is seperate .. i would go much further and also give TRAs control over allocations .. ye stehre will be racism and favouritism .. but we have to start taking back responsibility

 

[Dravinian]

Oh I see, you mean this



If the council continues to sell off land and properties they will be no space available to build more.

I hold out a hope for compulsory purchase to make a come back when I am elected supreme overlord.....

 

[Lisarocket]

Now this is what i don't get about Tower Hamlets housing department. I manage a small co-op in Tower Hamlets. We had a 1 bed ground floor garden flat come up about a month ago. Offered it to TH as a nomination. Had to go through their choice based lettings process- flat was advertised in the paper, people bid for it etc.

We were sent 3 candidates for it. The primary on didn't turn up. The secondary one said it was two small as she needed a 2 bed. The third one liked it, but the committee didn't want 'a field of 1'

So i ring TH again and ask for more candidates. They initially say we can't have any more and then say they will send us another 1 candidate because "we are unable to mix certain priority groups when putting forward multiple nominations"

This new candidate they sent rings me last night and says she's found somewhere else...

So, we've still got a nice 1 bed garden flat on offer and i reckon if we contact TH again they're going to say we have to re advertise it or something.

This proves to me that the choice based lettings system doesn't really work because people with points are just bidding for everything and then cherry picking, while the people with lower points who would love this flat aren't even getting a look in because they're probably the wrong 'priority group'. I can't believe that only 4 people 'bid' for this flat, so why caqn't they send us more people from lower down the bidding list?

Flats in Tower Hamlets. You can't even get tenants for them