Some tube strikes, just for a change.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
_angel_
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What a cheery fellow you are...! One would think if LU where to finally implement driverless trains they'd have advanced the technology a bit... Dunno why this is "hollow politics". Do people really want to be driving trains in dark tunnels under London if the technology can be made available...
cos it's their job?? Would you like to be made unemployed by a robot?
... because, of course, the RMT are a bunch of intransigent lefty dinosaurs who won't be 'reasonable,' never negotiate and go on strike at the drop of a hat.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
x 1,000,000
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
People have been made unemployed by machines since history began. Some would call it progress.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
What a lot of nonsense.
The reason driverless trains haven't been introduced is not because they wouldn't be safe, but because of passenger perception. Arguably also because of union pressure acting in the interests of the drivers who don't want to lose their jobs.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes, but perhaps also those who no longer have to do incredibly tedious or dangerous jobs because they are now automated.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I didn't realise this, cheers Oxpecker.
Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
Why would they? Or in your mind is everyone automatically allocated a less tedious/dangerous job, which pays at least the same money?
Last time there were threatened strike on the tube in London, lots of Urbanites did the usual thing (hey, we are all LibDem now in Lambeth right. ) and threw their toys about how overpaid train drivers are and how DARE they quibble over a top rate of 30K a year.
Until I did the maths. And worked out that that was equivilent to MAYBE being able to afford to buy a flat in the ex council tower block my uncle lived in. In the arse of London; in the least accesable part of the capital. And then, the "best" piad, can't even afford the worst?
Something bloody wrong there.
And it is not something wrong that we deny a good wage to the men and women that take us to work, to college, to the shops, to a night out. I've enough mates who work in public transport. When it comes to my safety, I know who I'll put my trust in.
) and threw their toys about how overpaid train drivers are and how DARE they quibble over a top rate of 30K a year.Until I did the maths. And worked out that that was equivilent to MAYBE being able to afford to buy a flat in the ex council tower block my uncle lived in. In the arse of London; in the least accesable part of the capital. And then, the "best" piad, can't even afford the worst?
Something bloody wrong there.
And it is not something wrong that we deny a good wage to the men and women that take us to work, to college, to the shops, to a night out. I've enough mates who work in public transport. When it comes to my safety, I know who I'll put my trust in.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
The cunts that moan and bitch about tube drivers earning £30K (actually, with enhancements etc it's nearer £36K), haven't the balls to get themselves organised at work. These tossers would see organised workers brought down to their level, rather than fight to claw their way up to levels of decent wages and conditions. To all such forelock-tugging boss-loving fuck cunts I say: Stop trying to drag the others down to your miserable level and fight for the same rights!
Last time there were threatened strike on the tube in London, lots of Urbanites did the usual thing (hey, we are all LibDem now in Lambeth right.
Until I did the maths. And worked out that that was equivilent to MAYBE being able to afford to buy a flat in the ex council tower block my uncle lived in. In the arse of London; in the least accesable part of the capital. And then, the "best" piad, can't even afford the worst?
Something bloody wrong there.
And it is not something wrong that we deny a good wage to the men and women that take us to work, to college, to the shops, to a night out. I've enough mates who work in public transport. When it comes to my safety, I know who I'll put my trust in.
(a) People don't tend to buy houses on their own... I've got friends who earn less than £30k, and since they weren't train drivers, clubbed together and bought a house.
(b) Once you figure in six months holidays, its more like £45k a year... For a job that has, on the DLR, been replaced by a computer, thats more than the national average salary. And any time they want a pay rise, they go on strike... Do you really want London held hostage to a bunch of button pushers...?
This one makes teutonic look almost sensible
It was just as sensible as Isambards fact free rant...!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Firstly, have you had a think about what would happen if everyone in London was given a minimum wage of £36k? That maybe, the cost of living and housing and everything else would go up just a teeny weeny bit?
Anyway, setting that aside for now: your point about other people not having the "balls to get themselves organised at work".
This is an oft quoted argument in these kinds of discussions. But it's not a fair one because it is not equally easy for anyone to organise themselves in this way. The tube workers aren't blessed with a strong union because they've got more "balls" - its a result of a mixture of historical accident and also the nature of the work they do and the nature of the organisation they work for. This is one of the reasons I am unconvinced that strike action is the best way to encourage good pay and conditions, and favour the idea that this should be dealt with by the state through regulation and benefits instead. Workers in certain industries/positions have an unfair advantage over others in terms of the power they can exert through industrial action.
Perhaps you could talk me through how exactly the employee of a family-owned independent corner shop (AKA "forelock-tugging boss-loving fuck cunt") goes about joining/forming a union and then using his membership to improve his conditions? Assuming he has the "balls" to do so, of course.
There are ways of doing this, T. My first full-time job back in 1979 was for a company that had no union recognition. It was a small, private parcel delivery firm. When the T&G called a national one day stoppage, as the only union member I was the only employee to go on strike. Within 2 years I'd recruited the majority of staff to the union, I was negotiating on their behalf with the company and a year later I'd secured a recognition deal with the T&G for both London depots. As a result the wages and conditions improved enormously.
I'm not exceptional in any way, just someone who believes in the effectiveness of collective bargaining and is prepared to do something about it.
I'm not exceptional in any way, just someone who believes in the effectiveness of collective bargaining and is prepared to do something about it.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Don't know where you live pal; but here in London, the cost of living and housing has been driven up by coke-snorting-cunts on obscene salaries
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Oh fuck off. You asked a question. Somebody gave you a response you didn't want; and, you try to move the goal posts.
A mini market not far from where I live has 100% Unite-T&G membership.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Eh?
Where have I moved the goal posts from and to?
OK, but what would be the result of strike action that demanded wages significantly over the going market rate?
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Define the 'going market rate'.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The rate at which similar positions are currently being advertised and accepted.
You're right, things were a bit different. Following on from the winter of discontent and the election of the Thatcher government we witnessed the largest recorded decline in trade union membership and a great raft of anti-trade union legislation.
Would I be equally effective? I don't know is the honest answer, but the RMT is the fastest growing union in Britain at the moment so somebody is doing something right.
Incidentally, the workers at a local Indian take-away have all joined the ISTC (community) union and wear their union T shirts as they work. Which is encouraging
_angel_
.
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
Define similar positions, the responsibilities therein etc.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Look up "similar" in the dictionary. You'll find it under "S".
What point are you trying to make?
Urbanblues
Was that it, life?
My question was very straightforward. However, since you're obviously struggling; I’ll put it in such a way even you may, probably with a little help from your friends, Google, the British Library, 12 years of a wasted education, grasp. A R E n Y O U n R E A D Y?
Give me examples of comparable jobs; highlighting the responsibilities expected to be undertaken by people filling those jobs.
