Some ideas for making the bnp unwelcome

[audiotech]

You've just described the activities that the swaps endulged in that caused B and D to have 11 fash councillors.

So, a small band of trots shouting slogans in Barking and Dagenham led to 11 BNP councillors did it?

 

[audiotech]

Leafletted today by the United Socialist Party. Two sides of A4 headed:
REAL AIMS OF THE BNP

"The real aim of the BNP is a totalitarian state (something like Saddam Husseins regime). Their aim is to abolish democracy, to take away your freedom of speech. They would abolish the Trade Unions and every other political party.

The BNP don't believe in democracy so why should they share in it?

More interesting stuff, a picture of Griffin doing the heil hitler salute, and under it

KEEP THESE THUGS OUT OF LIVERPOOL.

The infamous, alleged picture of Griffo doing a straight arm has surfaced then? Link?

 

[William of Walworth]

Anyone know exactly how chymaera was banned? Is it a permaban??

Checked his recent post stuff but I can't work it out, must have missed something.

PM welcome to avoid thread derailmrent, ta.

 

[poster342002]

So, a small band of trots shouting slogans in Barking and Dagenham led to 11 BNP councillors did it?

I doubt it did a lot to stem the tide, lets put it that way.

 

[poster342002]

"The real aim of the BNP is a totalitarian state (something like Saddam Husseins regime). Their aim is to abolish democracy, to take away your freedom of speech. They would abolish the Trade Unions and every other political party.

You reckon this will have any sort of resonance or effect on people who aren't members of unions anyway and see the exisitng political parties as the cause of their problems?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

So, a small band of trots shouting slogans in Barking and Dagenham led to 11 BNP councillors did it?

Not directly the bnp was building in the area but the actions of the some of the so called anti fash in dismissing the concerns and fears of the locals about resource allocation as worthless and calling people 'nazis' really didn't help and as I was living there at the time I reckon it added a good 15-20% onto the bnp vote. They pissed people off so that they thought 'fuck 'em I will vote bnp now'.

 

[butchersapron]

Have a look in the bin william.

 

[Spion]

Not directly the bnp was building in the area but the actions of the some of the so called anti fash in dismissing the concerns and fears of the locals about resource allocation as worthless and calling people 'nazis' really didn't help and as I was living there at the time I reckon it added a good 15-20% onto the bnp vote. They pissed people off so that they thought 'fuck 'em I will vote bnp now'.

Did they call you a Nazi, KBJ?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Did they call you a Nazi, KBJ?

Why would they. It was pretty well known in the area that I was anti bnp. The problem was a lot of the waverers who might or might not have supported the bnp out of desparation had their decisions made for them by the actions fo the swaps etc.

It was a case where the opposition so obviously disregarded the locals that it made it much easier for the bnp to sell the idea that the traditional left was anti the white working class.

 

[Spion]

Why would they. It was pretty well known in the area that I was anti bnp. The problem was a lot of the waverers who might or might not have supported the bnp out of desparation had their decisions made for them by the actions fo the swaps etc.

It was a case where the opposition so obviously disregarded the locals that it made it much easier for the bnp to sell the idea that the traditional left was anti the white working class.

I was just pulling your plonker, chief, in a jokey reference to some of your politics

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I was just pulling your plonker, chief, in a jokey reference to some of your politics

I gathered that I was jjust soapboxing for the benefit of others.

 

[audiotech]

Not directly the bnp was building in the area but the actions of the some of the so called anti fash in dismissing the concerns and fears of the locals about resource allocation as worthless and calling people 'nazis' really didn't help and as I was living there at the time I reckon it added a good 15-20% onto the bnp vote. They pissed people off so that they thought 'fuck 'em I will vote bnp now'.

I don't buy it.

The concerns and fears of the locals about resource allocation would have been addressed by any serious anti-fascists and I would have thought that the only people being called 'nazis' would be BNP members and their supporters - no?

 

[audiotech]

I doubt it did a lot to stem the tide, lets put it that way.

So, what would have stopped the tide? A Labour Council truely representing the people of B&D and providing quality services do you think?

 

[tbaldwin]

So, a small band of trots shouting slogans in Barking and Dagenham led to 11 BNP councillors did it?

The BNP have always relied on their Political opponents for the oxygen of publicity. AFA made huge mistakes in the early 90s, with their very public anti fascist events like the ultra swp style stupidity of "reclaim the lane" this helped boost the BNP enough for the SWP and a few opportunist who went on to form ARA to get interested. Both of them helped the BNP to get more and more publicity.

The thing that always makes the BNP feel most unwelcome is being largely ignored and then battered...Like the last Cod in a Chip shop thats closing down...

 

[durruti02]

Anyone know exactly how chymaera was banned? Is it a permaban??

Checked his recent post stuff but I can't work it out, must have missed something.

PM welcome to avoid thread derailmrent, ta.

he copied out 'the bnp song' ( which actually is mostly misty eyed nostalgia until the last few lines which are pretty nasty racist shite ) .. and then flailed wildly as to where he got them, from claiming to have heard 3 bands singing it ( possible?) and that his wife had a cd of it on a comp ( possible) made by a west indian women in birmingham! LOL so it was decided he was BNP ( and tobyjug who ever that was ) .. i still do not agree with these bans though .. i think we make our lives too simple by simply throwing off those we disagree with .. we should be able to destroy them with words ..

 

[durruti02]

I was just pulling your plonker, chief, in a jokey reference to some of your politics

so are you going to deny what he says though? that theh actions of the left OFTEN push people into the arms of the BNP?

 

[durruti02]

So, the KBJ campaign would be for:

* A halt to immigration
* More police
* An end to council waste

It's sort of BNP without the racism, no? I simply wonder if that's possible. If it really is possible to place such a heavy emphasis on being against immigration and not end up pandering to racist sentiment?

That is why I'm against putting the blame on immigration and placing it on the lack of tax revenues from the rich

where does KBJ "put .. the blame on immigration " ?

 

[Meltingpot]

he copied out 'the bnp song' ( which actually is mostly misty eyed nostalgia until the last few lines which are pretty nasty racist shite ) .. and then flailed wildly as to where he got them, from claiming to have heard 3 bands singing it ( possible?) and that his wife had a cd of it on a comp ( possible) made by a west indian women in birmingham! LOL so it was decided he was BNP ( and tobyjug who ever that was ) .. i still do not agree with these bans though .. i think we make our lives too simple by simply throwing off those we disagree with .. we should be able to destroy them with words ..

I agree, I don't believe in banning anyone for their views but once you allow pro-BNP people to post it takes over the whole board. They're almost fanatical in what they believe in and their desire to promote it.

Maybe there could be a part of the forum dedicated to debating with racial nationalists, just as Stormfront has an "Opposing Views" section?

 

[audiotech]

The thing that always makes the BNP feel most unwelcome is being largely ignored and then battered...Like the last Cod in a Chip shop thats closing down...

So you ignore them and then "batter" them at the same time - don't make sense somehow?

 

[tbaldwin]

I don't buy it.

The concerns and fears of the locals about resource allocation would have been addressed by any serious anti-fascists and I would have thought that the only people being called 'nazis' would be BNP members and their supporters - no?

The stupidity of the far left has always been the biggest bonus for the far right.
On immigration and allocation of resources sections of the far left have always played right into the hands of the BNP. Both sides have lied and exaggerated for their political ends.

The BNP have benefited hugely from the publicity given to them by the far left.

 

[tbaldwin]

So you ignore them and then "batter" them at the same time - don't make sense somehow?

Not to a Liberal like yourself. What it means is that instead of activities that help to publicise them, they get attacked. Sometimes quietly and sometimes not so quietly. If you read that Jewish 43 group what worked was not a huge political campaign with them at the centre. It was the same in the early 90s the groups who helped to publicise them including AFA should hang their opportunist heads in shame.

 

[frogwoman]

I agree, I don't believe in banning anyone for their views but once you allow pro-BNP people to post it takes over the whole board. They're almost fanatical in what they believe in and their desire to promote it.

Maybe there could be a part of the forum dedicated to debating with racial nationalists, just as Stormfront has an "Opposing Views" section?

no, because urban75 isnt specifically about race ... they have no place here

if that happened we would lose most (if not all) of our good posters ... this is (well, it started out being) a left wing/anarchist site ... not somewhere where fash should be made welcome

 

[frogwoman]

and at the risk of starting all this up agian ... chymaera was a bit stupid/ignorant ... but no fash

 

[soulman]

You reckon this will have any sort of resonance or effect on people who aren't members of unions anyway and see the exisitng political parties as the cause of their problems?

To be fair that was only a few lines from the leaflet. Here's the full thing:

(p1)

The BNP would have us believe that none white people and immigration cause all our financial problems. Sound familiar? It should do, Hitler (remember him? He started the Second World War) used this sort of rubbish to abolish democracy in Germany and then every country that the Nazi's invaded, resulting in the death of millions of people.

REAL AIMS OF THE BNP.

The real aim of the BNP is a totalitarian state (something like Saddam Hussein regime). Their aim is to abolish democracy, to take away your freedom of speech. They would abolish the Trade Unions and every other political party.

The BNP don't believe in democracy so why should they share in it?

They use racism to try to cloud the issues. It used to be blacks, then the Asians and of course people of Irish descent, according to the fascists, who were the causes of all our problems. They will try to turn neighbour against neighbour, Protestant against Catholic, anything, which causes disunity amongst working people so that the BNP's wealthy paymasters can rule the day without interruption.

The BNP and their friends who own the gutter press (remember the slander poured on Liverpool people at every opportunity) make out that the housing shortage is due to immigration. Well how come both Liverpool and Knowsley have been selling off land and housing stock to private companies? Not forgetting of course that your local Labour councillors voted to privatise housing!

The BNP don't have your interests at heart, just the opposite in fact.

Nick Griffin Leader of the BNP - Fascist salute - showing his true colours.

[blurry pic of someone ]

KEEP THESE THUGS OUT OF LIVERPOOL.


(p2)

Bullying bosses, poor wages, poor conditions and lack of investment in our communities are all bad news for working people. Waiting hours for treatment at the local NHS A&E because of staff shortages. Education being privatised. State pensions not worth a carrot, the rip off of private pensions and now the grim prospect of having to work until you're seventy years old are some of the hardships that working people have to endure.

Plenty of Money.
No shortage of cash for the Directors of the Private Companies brought in to run your local school. No shortage of cash to spend on policing the removal of Iraq's oil by PRIVATE companies, a snip at £5million per day and £5 Billion to date.

No shortage of cash for politicians lavish lifestyle. They also claim tens of thousands 'allowances' while telling the rest of us we have to 'tighten our belts'!

How about the bloke, who's in charge of the Post Office, he denies the posties a decent wage rise and is closing down your local Post Offices.
His wages are £1.25 million a year.

Not to forget either the estimated £84 Billion uncollected taxes from big business every year.

DON'T GET KIDDED.
Why then, when everybody knows who is ripping us off, does the Fascist BNP try to scapegoat the people who don't have white skin?

Simple. The BNP don't have any answers to our problems.

The BNP try to make people's skin colour and immigration an issue to distract us from the real issues.
This country is the fourth wealthiest in the world, rich enough for everyone to have a decent standard of living. Why then all the shortages in our wage packets and pensions?
The only people who truly support the Government these days are their big business friends and of course the cheap, lying newspapers.

 

[Spion]

so are you going to deny what he says though? that theh actions of the left OFTEN push people into the arms of the BNP?

Yes. The reasons people go for the BNP are far wider than that.

 

[Spion]

where does KBJ "put .. the blame on immigration " ?

He doesn't explicitly, but in the post to which I was replying immigration has the highest wordcount of any subject

I don't believe immigration is the root of our troubles.

 

[tbaldwin]

He doesn't explicitly, but in the post to which I was replying immigration has the highest wordcount of any subject

I don't believe immigration is the root of our troubles.

You might not think Immigration is the root of our troubles.

But Economic Migration is part of the problems of worldwide inequality.
It helps to increase that inequliaty as poorer nations inevitably lose the people they most need to richer nations.

Combating the bullshit of the BNP means being honest yourselves and sadly sections of the left have proven to be as dishonest and as out to lunch as the BNP.

 

[durruti02]

Yes. The reasons people go for the BNP are far wider than that.

of course spion!! you thnk i do not think that also??? but when teh SWP then parachute into an area as KBJ as so well described it can be teh straw that breaks teh camels back

 

[durruti02]

He doesn't explicitly, but in the post to which I was replying immigration has the highest wordcount of any subject

I don't believe immigration is the root of our troubles.

this is poor mate .. wordcount??? FFS is this what you do .. wordcounts NOT what people actually say??


neither you me TB OR KBJ think "immigration is the root of our troubles" ..

never have never will but your, and the lefts, refusal to see that it is being used by the bosses, HAS contributed to the rise of the far right

 

[Spion]

this is poor mate .. wordcount??? FFS is this what you do .. wordcounts NOT what people actually say??

If some spends more time speaking about one thing than another in a post I assume it is more important to them

neither you me TB OR KBJ think "immigration is the root of our troubles" ..

never have never will but your, and the lefts, refusal to see that it is being used by the bosses, HAS contributed to the rise of the far right

I've never denied the use of immigration to the bosses. Where did I ever do that?

It's just I believe dealing with it involves a) not calling for immigration controls and b) fighting for jobs, decent wages and housing for ALL. How exactly do you disagree with that?