Solidarity demo for West Papua

[derf]

But you have by your own admission colluded with the state. Hence you are about as trustworthy as a chocolate penny.

If that means I helped the cops nail a drug dealer the answer is yes.
That scum deserve it in exactly the same way that rapists do.
They have a common trait in that they use people for their own selfish ends with no consideration as to the victims.

Now pack the shit in and lets see if the OP can supply details or a contact I can pass on to my mate. He's in the national press by the way and smells a big story. If it's not politically invented bullshit.

 

[_float_]

If that means I helped the cops nail a drug dealer the answer is yes.
That scum deserve it in exactly the same way that rapists do.
They have a common trait in that they use people for their own selfish ends with no consideration as to the victims.

Now pack the shit in and lets see if the OP can supply details or a contact I can pass on to my mate. He's in the national press by the way and smells a big story. If it's not politically invented bullshit.

Rather than engage in side arguments about the morality of recreational drugs, how about you respond to my posts?

I spend a fair amount of time finding those links for you, yet you don't mention having looked at them.

Of course in any conlict there is always a risk of people inventing stories about the 'enemy' for the sake of propaganda, which is why human rights researchers investigate the stories for themselves. If you read the links I have provided you will be able to make up your own mind about how well they have assessed the evidence and whether in your opinion it stands up to scrutiny.

again:

1. "Out of Sight Endemic Abuse and Impunity in Papua's Central Highlands"
source: Human Rights Watch

2. "Genocide in West Papua?"
source: The University of Sydney

3. "Indigenous Indonesians suffer injustices, say Catholic reps"
source: Catholic News Service

 

[editor]

If that means I helped the cops nail a drug dealer the answer is yes.
That scum deserve it in exactly the same way that rapists do.
They have a common trait in that they use people for their own selfish ends with no consideration as to the victims.

Please keep this hysterical, off topic shit off this thread.

 

[zevion]

Remind me to do some research and try to talk to some people about this.
This country, being mostly Muslim, is highly sensitive about rape and rapists are hated. They are unwelcome to return to their towns after being released and often get beaten up if they do.
I've a feeling that if Indonesians in general were aware of these crimes (proven?) there would be a serious backlash.

If you have solid evidence regarding sex crimes by Indonesian troops a good strategy may well be to advertise the fact in Indonesia aiming at the general public. I can tell you for free, I would not go down well with people here.
However, a word of warning. If the evidence is weak, don't do it.
You would just get yourselves into a right pile of shit.

Sorry to break your precious image of Indonesia, but you are living in a country with the worst human rights record in all of Asia, even surpassing the Chinese. Not content with almost wiping out the entire East Timorese race 10 years ago, since then the military have committed untold atrocities in Aceh and are now doing their best to beat their previous record with an increase in military operations in West Papua.

The rapists in question are members of the Indonesian military.

Watch this BBC report. On 2.26 mins you hear a Papuan woman talk about how Indonesian soldiers rape young girls. Yes, young girls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7942026.stm

Go and show that to your Indonesian friends

 

[zevion]

This was a great piece of film making although I think it could have dug a bit deeper into the reasons for independence. That aside, just getting the footage was amazing. I was amused by the fact that some of the tribal leaders looked like Lee Scratch Perry or was it the other way around, some of them even adopting rasta outfits. The embassy response was a bit of a joke.

unfortunately for this report the BBC demanded full editorial control

will give a heads up when full documentary is ready. this will include more indepth background on the struggle

 

[derf]

Please keep this hysterical, off topic shit off this thread.

Tell dot com that. I didn't bring it up and had no intention to do so.

 

[derf]

Sorry to break your precious image of Indonesia, but you are living in a country with the worst human rights record in all of Asia, even surpassing the Chinese. Not content with almost wiping out the entire East Timorese race 10 years ago, since then the military have committed untold atrocities in Aceh and are now doing their best to beat their previous record with an increase in military operations in West Papua.

The rapists in question are members of the Indonesian military.

Watch this BBC report. On 2.26 mins you hear a Papuan woman talk about how Indonesian soldiers rape young girls. Yes, young girls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7942026.stm

Go and show that to your Indonesian friends

First I would request that you tone down your attitude. You are talking about Indonesians in general when you are accusing a very few Indonesian and their political masters.

I am unable to open the last link from here but will do so when I visit my internet cafe on Friday.
I can't make any comment on that link until then except to mention that it's BBC and so I can consider the content reliable.
It's my belief and hope that the BBC had kept it's integrity even through the Tony Blair years.

Moving back to the subject in question I do know for fact that if people here were to find out that soldiers were guilty of rape there would be a national outcry and heads would roll.

I didn't mention your links. I have passed these on to the gentleman in question for him to read and make up his own mind about as I will your new link when I have seen it.
I have also passed on a link to your thread. Pity about dot coms rantings.

My "precious image of Indonesia" is based on the people I know here who are, in general, good people who care about others.
I don't believe there is any call to generalise about the people of Indonesia for the unproven actions of a few.

If members of the Indonesian police and/or military are guilty of the crimes you describe I'm on your side. I have no time at all for rapists and murderers.

 

[zevion]

I do know for fact that if people here were to find out that soldiers were guilty of rape there would be a national outcry and heads would roll.

There certainly wasn't a public outcry after the Timorese massacres, and there were countless confirmed reports of rape being committed by the Indonesian military then.

The Indonesian military hold immense power and control everything from the illegal logging trade to prostitution rackets.

The reality is that in over 40 years of occupation during which it is estimated that over 400,000 Papuans have been killed, I would struggle to find evidence of one Indonesian military personnel having had charges levied against them. The Indonesian Government will not accept for a minute what is happening in West Papua. As far as they are concerned the Papuans are happy living under their oppressive rule.

Regarding the wider Indonesian population. Yes you are right, you can't tarnish all by the same brush. After all, many of them still bear the scars of the Suharto era. An evil man whose shadow still hangs large over the country. However, the lack of public outrage and debate following Timor and Aceh speaks volumes. Maybe they still live in fear too.

 

[derf]

Regarding the wider Indonesian population. Yes you are right, you can't tarnish all by the same brush. After all, many of them still bear the scars of the Suharto era. An evil man whose shadow still hangs large over the country. However, the lack of public outrage and debate following Timor and Aceh speaks volumes. Maybe they still live in fear too.

It's clear that you were not in Indonesia when Pak Harto died.

Insulting him or the Indonesian government in that way will only hurt your cause.
Indonesians tend to be very patriotic and stuff like that will just get you put down as a waste of space.
Unfortunate as it is, I have already passed this thread on to the gentleman in question and such comments are not going to help if he reads the new posts.

 

[zevion]

It's clear that you were not in Indonesia when Pak Harto died.

Insulting him or the Indonesian government in that way will only hurt your cause.
Indonesians tend to be very patriotic and stuff like that will just get you put down as a waste of space.
Unfortunate as it is, I have already passed this thread on to the gentleman in question and such comments are not going to help if he reads the new posts.

Suharto presided over one of the largest episodes of ethnic cleansing in the modern world. He deserves to have his name dragged through the gutter for the evil tyrant that he was.

Back to the original point. Can you tell me why there was no public outrage in Indonesia about the widely reported murders and rapes in East Timor 10 years ago? If you can't, then maybe the Indonesian gentleman who you say you have forwarded the thread to might be able to shed some light on this.

 

[derf]

Suharto presided over one of the largest episodes of ethnic cleansing in the modern world. He deserves to have his name dragged through the gutter for the evil tyrant that he was.

Back to the original point. Can you tell me why there was no public outrage in Indonesia about the widely reported murders and rapes in East Timor 10 years ago? If you can't, then maybe the Indonesian gentleman who you say you have forwarded the thread to might be able to shed some light on this.

Regardless of what you may think of Pak harto there are still many here that support him and see him as a great leader.
Anyone reading comments of that nature would see such an attack as an attack on Indonesia in general.
Not a good political move regardless of how you may feel or my own opinions about the man.
As for events of 10 years ago I was not here and am still learning about the recent history of the country so I am unable to comment further at this point.

The gentleman in question has the details as I promised so it's now up to him what he does with it.
I make no promises about that. What I can tell you is that the press here is fairly free but there is still some restriction that may not be official but still happens so he has to be very careful what he says.
An accusation of this nature has to be backed up with hard fact if he wants to keep his nuts. I also know that the situation you have been describing is never on the news here so very few people are aware of it at all.
I have asked in a general manner about it and been given the same answer each time. There was a problem but its over now the government are helping the local people.
That seems to be the perception here regardless of the truth of the matter.

 

[derf]

The situation in papua is starting to get more attention from the media here.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...d-papua-series-incidents-mars-voting-day.html

Not exactly pro papua.

On Wednesday evening, unknown assailants stabbed five ojek (motorcycle taxi) drivers in Wamena, leaving four of them dead and one in critical
condition

Sectarian violence I suspect.

 

[derf]

The pro papua lot are not doing themselves any favours.
There is no real argument that Indonesia pinched the place but, regardless of the real popularity of the 'free Papua' lot, they are shitting their own pot internationally.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3838755.stm

Three people were shot dead - two American nationals and an Indonesian.

At least 11 other people were injured in the attack. Most of the victims were teachers at the international school set up for Freeport employees.

And the new one.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/836480/aussie-shot-five-times-in-papua-report

A 40-member team of police and forensics specialists has arrived in Indonesia's restive Papua province to investigate the shooting death of an Australian employee of the US mining giant Freeport, officials say.