Software/IT Companies Recruitment
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Kanda
Diving wanker
It *was* tough, it was at a time when I chose to make myself redundant (Doh!). But most people I know re-skilled into other areas. Personally don't think you can afford to partition yourself or specialise in a particular field too much these days.
What field werre you in Astro??
What field werre you in Astro??
Kanda said:
Market/corporate development (Asia/Australia), for a very specific type of network appliance.
There were only 4 companies in the world making this type of product at the time (perhaps also today), and none were based in the UK, and I didn't have a green card (which I desperately wished I'd had).
undercover
Chopping up Armadillos
My last contract lasted five years and finished at the end of March, and in the next five weeks after that I applied for 150+ contracts and didn't get one single interview, and I know I've got a good CV and experience.
It is alot to do with the agencies, IME most of the consultants are just salesman and/or don't know the technolgoies that they're recruiting for, but there are good ones out there, and the good ones I did speak to in that period said it wasn't a lack of jobs available, it was the amount of people appying, 2-300 per job, so it's hard for your CV to even get looked at let alone put forward. Many, many people getting into IT these days.......
The thing that gets me most though these days (after 12 years contracting) is that it is all web based, you apply online etc (jobserve et al), and there's very rarely a contact name or number to follow up with except via email and that gets very frustrating.
The role I eventually ended up getting was one I hadn't even applied for, an agency called out the blue, the client liked my CV and didn't even want a fucking telephone interview, it was just, like, start tomorrow.
Go figure.
ETA, the job fucking sucks though, anymore going Mr 1798?
It is alot to do with the agencies, IME most of the consultants are just salesman and/or don't know the technolgoies that they're recruiting for, but there are good ones out there, and the good ones I did speak to in that period said it wasn't a lack of jobs available, it was the amount of people appying, 2-300 per job, so it's hard for your CV to even get looked at let alone put forward. Many, many people getting into IT these days.......
The thing that gets me most though these days (after 12 years contracting) is that it is all web based, you apply online etc (jobserve et al), and there's very rarely a contact name or number to follow up with except via email and that gets very frustrating.
The role I eventually ended up getting was one I hadn't even applied for, an agency called out the blue, the client liked my CV and didn't even want a fucking telephone interview, it was just, like, start tomorrow.
Go figure.
ETA, the job fucking sucks though, anymore going Mr 1798?
undercover said:
I wonder why so many people are still going into it?
I understood it in the late 90's when the combination of the 'dot-com' boom and the millenium bug scare meant there was a shortage- and many people went into it assuming demand would always be this strong.
But surely the 'no room at the inn' message must have perculated down to sixth-formers choosing their uni courses by now?
EastEnder
Brixton Barnacle
IT is still perceived as cushy/lucrative/safe/etc.kingmaker said:
Lots of people like working in a comfy office, often not having to deal with Joe Public, a computer is your own little world, can still be better paid than many jobs...
Remember when the guff about plumbers being able to earn more than bank managers hit the headlines a few years back? How many struggling IT workers decided to stop looking for an office job and retrain as a plumber instead...? Not very many, I'm guessing....
Probably because if you have an aptitude for it, it's the biggest piece of piss in existencekingmaker said:
Good money, not physical or really dangerous, and the biggest boon of all, it can be so interesting that you don't notice the day going
Believe me, that never happened during a shift at McDonalds 
EastEnder
Brixton Barnacle
They're also more difficult.....kingmaker said:
How many people working in law got there by reading a few "Learn XYZ in 21 days..." types books and playing around with the technology at home?
If you can get a foot in the door, after a few years in IT proper qualifications aren't that big a deal - got 4 years experience doing the stuff required for this job? Cool! We'll give you an interview....
It's a pretty unique situation, can't think of any other professional field that would apply to.
Dunno, don't have any aptitude for that sort of stuffkingmaker said:
Seriously, that's a fair point. Perhaps due to kids growing up playing with consoles and home PCs and thinking that it wouldn't be a bad field to get into. Like getting paid to play
Myself, it's because it interests me. If it didn't I wouldn't do it.
EastEnder
Brixton Barnacle
When I started in IT, it was....kingmaker said:
When I did a comp sci degree at uni, to most people "internet" was what happened to a football when someone scored a goal....
My first job was traditional, old school type programming. An appropriate degree was mandatory in those days.
Then along came the internet, demand for techies went through the roof, everyone jumped on the bandwagon, employers prerequisites for jobs went through the floor, getting hired for a well paid job knocking together websites was easier than taking a dump....
Things are a bit more sensible these days, and having an appropriate degree is now a lot more relevant than it was a while back. Certainly for someone entering the market today it makes a big difference. But even now, if you can gain the necessary experience somehow without doing a degree, there's plenty of IT jobs that'll be open to you.
Kanda
Diving wanker
I've probably interviewed hundreds of IT people over the years and I always chose the geeks with experience than the people with degrees/MCSE's etc, I'd re-employ all of them today without a second thought. The amount of IT people with *paper* MCSE's (prolly ex-plumbers/milkman) that I have seen over my time is sickening, absolute fucking waste of space with zero *IT common sense*.
Experience > All unless you are starting out cos everyfeckingcompany these days wants a degree, which is bullshit.
Bits of paper saying you are qualified for x or y != IT material (IMO), gimme the geeks that bunked off school/college to play with technology
Experience > All unless you are starting out cos everyfeckingcompany these days wants a degree, which is bullshit.
Bits of paper saying you are qualified for x or y != IT material (IMO), gimme the geeks that bunked off school/college to play with technology
innit Kanda -- you tell it
e2a: it's funny cause i'm at the other end of the production line
i'm getting this mcse training shit paid for by work,.. which is dumb becuase i'd get better training off the folks in there (obviously) and i've complete IT sense.. it's crazy but i'm doing it because at the end of the day, it's job-blagging-material. it's stupid, but it's true. with an mcse and some experiecne you can always blag jobs.. without mcse you're lucky to..which is totally ludicrous.
e2a: it's funny cause i'm at the other end of the production line
i'm getting this mcse training shit paid for by work,.. which is dumb becuase i'd get better training off the folks in there (obviously) and i've complete IT sense.. it's crazy but i'm doing it because at the end of the day, it's job-blagging-material. it's stupid, but it's true. with an mcse and some experiecne you can always blag jobs.. without mcse you're lucky to..which is totally ludicrous.
EastEnder
Brixton Barnacle
Couldn't agree more.Kanda said:I've probably interviewed hundreds of IT people over the years and I always chose the geeks with experience than the people with degrees/MCSE's etc, I'd re-employ all of them today without a second thought. The amount of IT people with *paper* MCSE's (prolly ex-plumbers/milkman) that I have seen over my time is sickening, absolute fucking waste of space with zero *IT common sense*.
Experience > All unless you are starting out cos everyfeckingcompany these days wants a degree, which is bullshit.
Bits of paper saying you are qualified for x or y != IT material (IMO), gimme the geeks that bunked off school/college to play with technology
I only glance at degrees/qualifications on CVs, it's real world experience I'm mainly interested in.
I haven't done any qualifications since graduating, so have no clue whatsoever what an "MCSE" or similar actually means in real terms. What I do know is that someone with a years genuine commercial experience is 10 times more appealing than someone with negligible experience and an MCSE.
IT is all about learning on the job and actually doing it for real in a real world environment.
Case in point: We've had an undergraduate doing a work placement thingy with us for the last year, he's soon back off to uni to do his final year. As I've said to him, he'll be about a gazillion times more employable when he graduates than his peers who just did the degree without the year out in industry. He's had to put up with 12 months of working hard for crap rates (he's a stuuudent, what's he expect?
), but as a result he'll walk straight into any number of decent jobs.Yeah. , eh?
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
It looks quite in-depth on paper. What the actual courses or exams contain, however, I couldn't begin to speculate upon.
, eh?http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
It looks quite in-depth on paper. What the actual courses or exams contain, however, I couldn't begin to speculate upon.
Read the small print eh ??Iam said:Yeah.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/windows2003/
It looks quite in-depth on paper. What the actual courses or exams contain, however, I couldn't begin to speculate upon.
Do I have to? 
Reading the laid-out large print was fairly mind numbing.
There's been some suggestion of me doing an MCSE this year as I'm working much more with Active Directory now than I have before. But there's things I think I'd much rather do that are far more relevant to my current job and far less involved...
Blackberry training, for instance, as I've inherited support for a load. And they seem to require almost constant maintenance. Could be user related, though.
Reading the laid-out large print was fairly mind numbing.
There's been some suggestion of me doing an MCSE this year as I'm working much more with Active Directory now than I have before. But there's things I think I'd much rather do that are far more relevant to my current job and far less involved...
Blackberry training, for instance, as I've inherited support for a load. And they seem to require almost constant maintenance. Could be user related, though.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Nobody with sense gives a flying fuck about an MSCE or what ever they are.
If your in IT and want to further it (and have a degree) the one and only good way I know is to get a Post Grad degree. Either as a conversion to IT for non IT people or a taught or research MSc in something interesting (well to me) like Databases or Parallel processing.
You will be suprised how much this is valued.
If your in IT and want to further it (and have a degree) the one and only good way I know is to get a Post Grad degree. Either as a conversion to IT for non IT people or a taught or research MSc in something interesting (well to me) like Databases or Parallel processing.
You will be suprised how much this is valued.
undercover
Chopping up Armadillos
Totally agree about all the comments regarding MCSE, degrees etc, I've seen some shocking people who've got the job (I've never been in the position to interview them, just got to work with the fuckers once they've got the jobs) after gettign an interview based purely on qualifications, but I think one of the main problems with agencies is that they DO put their faith in the qualifications, escpecially whrn the client has put them down as pre-requisites.
I'm sure they just query a large database for terms like that, then read the CV's from the results.
I've got a train company on mmy CV and have had more than a few calls from agencies for work as a track engineer.
I'm sure they just query a large database for terms like that, then read the CV's from the results.
I've got a train company on mmy CV and have had more than a few calls from agencies for work as a track engineer.
filthygypsy
Too filthy for you!
But unfortunately a lot of companies still want a degree before they will even consider you. Ive 12 years experience in all areas of IT, ranging from programming, through to IT hardware/servers/networks through to product / project management, as well as all areas of customer support/service/training.
But, ive spent the last 12 months looking for a job and whilst ive applied for hundreds, ive struggled to get agencies to put my CV forward as I havnt got a degree. Some even said that any degree would have done - even if its a non-computing one!
The main problem I have is that ive been a manager now for 10 years. People look at my very wide range of experience & skills and it doesnt fit into the normal pigeon holes which most job descriptions have - i.e. project manager or product manager, or technical service manager etc... They also think that if ive been doing this stuff for 10 years then im going to want to move up the ladder soon and wont be happy in the new role.
As a recruiter myself for my section in the company im baffled by the attitude and recuirements some companies have. I always go for experience rather than qualifications, and try to see the wider picture of peoples experience on their CV rather than just immediately dismissing it as it doesnt tick the "right boxes".
But, ive spent the last 12 months looking for a job and whilst ive applied for hundreds, ive struggled to get agencies to put my CV forward as I havnt got a degree. Some even said that any degree would have done - even if its a non-computing one!
The main problem I have is that ive been a manager now for 10 years. People look at my very wide range of experience & skills and it doesnt fit into the normal pigeon holes which most job descriptions have - i.e. project manager or product manager, or technical service manager etc... They also think that if ive been doing this stuff for 10 years then im going to want to move up the ladder soon and wont be happy in the new role.
As a recruiter myself for my section in the company im baffled by the attitude and recuirements some companies have. I always go for experience rather than qualifications, and try to see the wider picture of peoples experience on their CV rather than just immediately dismissing it as it doesnt tick the "right boxes".
lobster
Well-Known Member
has anyone done the red hat qualifications ?
and if so how were they and did it help gain employment?
and if so how were they and did it help gain employment?
ivebeenhigh
Well-Known Member
After 40 or so CV's and 12 interviews I finally found someone. I really didnt have a second choice lined up either and he was overjoyed to accept.
Which hopefully means I wont have to do support calls for much longer...
Oh I disagree on the merits of qualifications, some can be a real boon or certainly provide an insight into the personality of the person you are interviewing. This guy that I am hiring was the only one that had Microsoft Office Specialist qualifications and the only one to me that seemed capable of applying book knowledge in the real world...
C
Which hopefully means I wont have to do support calls for much longer...
Oh I disagree on the merits of qualifications, some can be a real boon or certainly provide an insight into the personality of the person you are interviewing. This guy that I am hiring was the only one that had Microsoft Office Specialist qualifications and the only one to me that seemed capable of applying book knowledge in the real world...
C
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
tbh, I think a degree is still important, learning by yourself is all well and good but it means that you will only know stuff you find interesting and also you won't know some of the theroy behind it, cowboys can be as bad as muppets sometimes.
