This is a most entertaining notion, i'd like to think those in power where that clever and organised as opposed to the chaotic reality.
Socialist Party response to the SWP unity call
- Thread starter Silver_Fox
- Start date
This is a most entertaining notion, i'd like to think those in power where that clever and organised as opposed to the chaotic reality.
goosegrease
Cheap fish products here
Got square eyes after reading that. It's fairly typical of the SP, nationally to adopt a pet cause in this case NO2EU, involve other groups and accuse anyone who dosn't get involved of being secterian. I think we all know that secretly they don't want the SWP involved anyway. They are allergic to them and come out in a rash of walkouts when exposed to their spores.
There are two sides to the S.P. They can be fairly zealous in their causes and will hear nothing that contradicts the analisys of their Executive Commitee, or even people/organisations that genuninely questions a point they've made.
On the other hand they are easy to work with and, in my experience will not impose their views/modes of organisation on local/community based campaigns to the detrement of those campaigns. I think that along with the AWL they do have something to contribute to the wider movement. They don't take the rent a mob of students approach of some others.
There are two sides to the S.P. They can be fairly zealous in their causes and will hear nothing that contradicts the analisys of their Executive Commitee, or even people/organisations that genuninely questions a point they've made.
On the other hand they are easy to work with and, in my experience will not impose their views/modes of organisation on local/community based campaigns to the detrement of those campaigns. I think that along with the AWL they do have something to contribute to the wider movement. They don't take the rent a mob of students approach of some others.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Begs belief
goosegrease
Cheap fish products here
Can you elaborate? In fairness my only experience of the AWL has been through anti BNP and Assylum Seeker solidarity kind of stuff. Found them open and down to earth, as far as any Trot party ever could be. I take it youve found differently.
When I was younger I was in S.P was at some demo and a load of SWP people came along and started having a go at me. I was about 16 (avg age of socialist) and didn't at the time know what they were going on about. I thought 'what a load of dicks, we are all socialists together'.
I very soon became disillusioned with socialism.
goosegrease
Cheap fish products here
It comes with having an entrenched position and a zealous belief you are THE REVOLUTIONARY PARTY. Big demos bring out the worse in these parties.
I've been phisicaly pushed out of the way by SWPers trying to get to the front of a demo, when I lost my temper I was more or less accused of splitting the movement by some middle class political hooligain with a silly hanky on his head. I should have split the fucker's lip.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
A thread on the AWL themselves might be either interesting or a complete non starter. At best an irrelevance, at worst irritating.Shelf life has long since passed.
Just for everyones information, when Nick Griffin was at the Town Hall in Manchester it was the Socialist Party that arranged for twenty kids in their late teens off a local Salford estate to join in the picket at the Town Hall. I think it was those kids that smashed one of Griffin's car windows as well. They are also involved in a really credible campaign to get rid of Blears in Salford. Having only known the SWP way of things I have been really impressed. They also seem to be organising at FC United at present, which I think is a really good idea. I can imagine the SWP, being chased away from there. Like they would even try!
I don't speak as a member, and only have experience in Manhcester, but so far I have been really impressed. I recently went to a 'where now for the left' SWP meeting at the friends meeting house where the SWP bloke sat on a chair with his feet up like some over grown student. It was only interventions from people in the Socialist Party that kept the meeting going. Everyone else was so down in the dumps, 'haven't we been here before with Respect!', that kind of thing....
I would be interested if anyone else has any horror stories about the SP that I should know about? I'd hate to walk into an association with them 'blind' as it were......
(I don't often post on here by the way, but I follow all the debates, epecially stuff on the IWCA etc very closely)....
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Sleight of hand by the SP on the electoral arithmetic, to try to portray No2EU election result as better than it actually was ...
the Respect vote in England and Wales is compared with the combined No2EU and SLP vote in England, Wales and Scotland. Both comparisons should include the SSP. The England and Wales vote last time should not just be Respect but should also include the Alliance for Green Socialism, who stood in Yorkshire and the Humber, and the Liberal Party in the North West, both of whom stood last time against Respect, but this time stood on the No2EU list (with some of the same candidates).
When you put all that together the "left" vote (if you can count some of the No2EU components as "left") was well down on the left vote in 2004, and No2EU was of course the smaller part.
Bit of a cheek for the SP to criticise the SWP for not wanting to have unity when they flounced out of the Socialist Alliance over issues that were far less important than they put up with the CPB over in No2EU.
Anyway it's all a bit irrelvant as No2EU is not going anywhere and neither are the SWP. The only organisation that will be able to pull a stronger electoral coalition together for the next general election is Respect.
the Respect vote in England and Wales is compared with the combined No2EU and SLP vote in England, Wales and Scotland. Both comparisons should include the SSP. The England and Wales vote last time should not just be Respect but should also include the Alliance for Green Socialism, who stood in Yorkshire and the Humber, and the Liberal Party in the North West, both of whom stood last time against Respect, but this time stood on the No2EU list (with some of the same candidates).
When you put all that together the "left" vote (if you can count some of the No2EU components as "left") was well down on the left vote in 2004, and No2EU was of course the smaller part.
Bit of a cheek for the SP to criticise the SWP for not wanting to have unity when they flounced out of the Socialist Alliance over issues that were far less important than they put up with the CPB over in No2EU.
Anyway it's all a bit irrelvant as No2EU is not going anywhere and neither are the SWP. The only organisation that will be able to pull a stronger electoral coalition together for the next general election is Respect.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
According to Cliffs History Of The Labour Party, socialist organiser(now AWL) were expelled from Labour Party before millies whitchunt, was wondering if they were a very different organisation in those days
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Seriously, you hilariously sectarian pedant, what the fuck are you talking about? What "stronger electoral coalition" are Respect going to pull together? Respect has had serious difficulties in even holding itself together recently.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Ha ha, that must be why the SP wanted Nick Wrack on its slate because Respect are irrelevant ...
Do you seriously think No2EU, with the CPB and RMT on board, are going to do anything? I dare say the SP could stand half a dozen moderately credible candidates of their own with maybe three or four fellow travellers or sympathetic independents, but if there is going to be any serious campaign it is Respect still that is the only left group in with a chance of winning any seats and getting any credibility for such a coalition.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
You didn't answer the question, predictably.
What "stronger electoral coalition" are Respect going to pull together? Who or what are you talking about?
I won't hold my breath waiting for a sensible response.
What "stronger electoral coalition" are Respect going to pull together? Who or what are you talking about?
I won't hold my breath waiting for a sensible response.
JHE
.
This from a member of al-Respeq! The party for Sharia and businessmen! The gall of the man leaves me stunned!
It's like Quasimodo has entered a fucking beauty contest and tries to cast doubt on the credibility of some of his rival contestants.
goosegrease
Cheap fish products here
I was in the SP for seven years (sounds like a confession). You ask of horror stories and to be fair I don't have any.
I left the SP because I became sick of the left in general. The SP are playing that game when all is said and done, of student politics, peddling a party line and believing that they are the only party, or organsation capable of forming the spearhead of a revolution and of being in power afterwards.
I've found that to be the belief of all the vanguardists and it is reflected in their day to day approach.
The SP use a cirtain language to reinforce this, as do the other left parties but I don't have inside experience. They call their members "comrades" and speak of having "cadres", they refer to anyone who looks younger than 25 as "youth". So imagine a cadre school for our youth comrades, yep.
I feel bad denouncing them but that kind of makes my point.
What about the people who aren't "comrades" or "cadres" in the final analisys? Sorry, but it's the language of totalaterianism.
Their record shows that they are capable of getting carried away, I'll try and find the pic* of some prominent millies sitting on a platform surrounded by banners proclaiming "Who beat the Poll tax? WE DID!" I mean, so much for the working class winning the struggle.
The SP have one strength that shines out, they actually attempt to speak to and involve working class people. As I said in another post they will work in campaings and make no attempt to dominate or push their own agenda above and beyond everything else. There members very often do make a positive impact where they can.
goosegrease
Cheap fish products here
As former SP member from about 1998-2001 I’d agree with that analysis, but they share the failings of most left wing groups in not engaging enougth with the views of 'ordinary' working class people.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well, it's certainly the case that SB and 5 have both spent time and money over the years either putting a person or two in each grouplet or coercing a member into providing intel, but yes, it would be entertaining to think that they'd actually done it on a wholesale rather than piecemeal basis. Very G. K. Chesterton!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
We had a few threads started by AWLers over the last couple of years. They get a bit upset if you question any of the sacred writ put forth by the holy prophet Matgamna.
Well, it's certainly the case that SB and 5 have both spent time and money over the years either putting a person or two in each grouplet or coercing a member into providing intel, but yes, it would be entertaining to think that they'd actually done it on a wholesale rather than piecemeal basis. Very G. K. Chesterton!
Could you imagine having to sit through hours of SWP meetings as your job and report back on it all. Makes you feel sorry for the establishment
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nah, makes me feel almost sorry for them!
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Not having ever had cause to visit the seventh circle of Hell, no.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I Hate to say this, but Good Post
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think you will find that the general secretary at FCunited is ex millie
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
According to Cliffs History Of The Labour Party, socialist organiser(now AWL) were expelled from Labour Party before millies whitchunt, was wondering if they were a very different organisation in those days
We used to call them socialist organ grinder, pleasant members in manchester who were seen as a softer versions of the SWP . I sat next to some at a conference in Chesterfield where Gerry Adams spoke ( before the ceasfire), they refused to applaud him.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
There is a National Committee of Respect tomorrow. Unlike the other organisations, I expect Respect to be the only one to respond positively to both the SWP and the No2EU development.
You didn't comment on the fraudulent electoral arithmetic used by the SP - I won't hold my breath either waiting for an apology.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
It's all very nice that you are going to have a committee meeting and that you expect them to be nice about the SWP's letter and No2EU. Again though, this doesn't answer my question.
Once more in case you missed it:
What "stronger electoral coalition" are Respect going to pull together? Who or what are you talking about?
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Indeed he is.
JHE
.
It would be fucking hilarious if the Social Workers and the Muslim gentlemen of al-Respeq tried to get back into bed with each other, but I can't really see it happening.
At most, al-Respeq will agree a deal so that their candidates, piss be upon them, stand where the ummah is strong and the kuffar Trots and assorted wotsits, if they want to stand, do so elsewhere.
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