Socialism 2005
- Thread starter cockneyrebel
- Start date
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Ta.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Nigel Irritable said:
Sounds like pretty good numbers then. Q some SW hack(ette) bumping their gums......
The IBT??? They get out at weekends then??
I remember a YRE weekend at South Bank Uni when the Workers International League turned up 'ern masse'.... the mid 90's also saw intermittent whines from the RIL-Revolutionary Internationalist League..... Yet another 'anonymous name' sect.
john malcolm
New Member
On a strange note, the usual interventions from the sects were almost entirely absent this year except for the IBT.[/QUOTE]
as mentioned earlier the CPGB intervened in the Trade Union session it was a joy to see. almost felt sorry for him, he got battered not least from Tony Mulhearn another sell out.
as mentioned earlier the CPGB intervened in the Trade Union session it was a joy to see. almost felt sorry for him, he got battered not least from Tony Mulhearn another sell out.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Fedayn said:
I think it was intended to look like that, as a sarcastic remark?
Fedayn said:
Yeah - the big increase was a mixture of some members who don't normally go to the event and a sizeable number of new members. The CPGB/Sparts/Workers Power etc will be pissed off that they gave the IBT a free run at all that new meat.
Fedayn said:
No less than six of them apparantly. Which means that they must have recruited someone recently. I have a sneaking confession to make though - I quite like the IBT, they are currently my favourite really nutty sect.
Fedayn said:
The WIL are now Workers Action aren't they? A single figure membership bunch of old lads in the Labour Party. As for the RIL they've done a sort of mini-SWP and disappeared into their own front, in their case the Movement for Justice. When I was living in London a few years ago I kept bumping into them because Brixton and the LSE were the only places where they still had a presence.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Nigel Irritable said:
They had 6 members back in the mid090's. A mate of mine-former Militant member-used to work with an IBTer. He mentioned the other 5 members. Said IBT was very complimentary about Militants political education of working-class youth
No idea what happened to WIL, tho' they trouncing they got at that YRE event might have made them wince a bit... I joke btw!!!
Funnily enough I googled the WIL and came up with this hehehe
john malcolm
New Member
Fedayn said:
It was meant to be ironic as Mark Serwotka and the PCS NEC were accused of selling out by the sectarian nut jobs.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Nigel Irritable said:
Fantastic! I didn't know who was behind the MFJ until just now. Cheers, nigel, you're still the king of thr trot-spotters
<Notes RIL=MFJ innote book>
Although I have always thought that the MFJ people I bumped into actually believed in what they were doing, especially liked the 'don't walk on by' thing.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Random said:
To be fair I was using the "front" terminology for convenience, I didn't mean to imply that they were being cynical about it. I certainly got the impression that they were sincere. Strange, bordering on unhinged in their politics, but sincere. One of their distinguishing features has always been an almost complete concentration on the "specially oppressed" sections of the working class, in particular black people and gay people.
The RIL have submerged themselves in the Movement for Justice to such an extent that the degree to which they still exist as a seperate entity is open to question. They haven't produced any material in their own name for years and their publication "Revolutionary Internationalist" is long gone. I once was given an old copy of it which contained one of the funniest sectarian articles ever, a kind of three way polemic between the RIL, the Workers International League and Workers Power written by somebody who had just left Workers Power to join the RIL, spurning the advances of the WIL. He was explaining at tedious, almost demented, length in fluent sectarian gibberish that Workers Power needed to take a position in favour of a Fifth International. Little did he know that just a few years later his dream would come true.
The left scene in the LSE was a fucking circus. The two most prominent groups were the RIL (trading as Movement for Justice) and the Revolutionary Communist Group (trading as Fight Racism! Fight Imperialism! or occasionally some Cuba is really great campaign). I can still remember organising a meeting about Palestine where the RCG and some Austrian Zionist showed up - in the words of the Smiths, I can laugh about it now but at the time it was terrible.
Or you mean they had a fight.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
No the RCG do not like Zionists one little bit. They screamed incoherently at each other while everyone else sat there looking appalled.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Because of the shouting I didn't get a very clear picture of his opinions apart from (a) Zionism is a very good thing and (b) the RCG is a very bad thing.
I agree with part (b).
I agree with part (b).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Big up the RAF. Go Dresden.Random said:
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I'm also told that RESPECT refused to send a representative to take part in the session on building a left alternative in England and Wales. The other speakers were from the Socialist Party, the SSP, the German Left Party and the Labour left. You would have thought that an opportunity to address hundreds of socialists on the subject would be snapped up by Galloway, the SWP and company but apparently not...
cockneyrebel
New Member
Even if you think it wasn't a sell out this is hardly a great analysis.
Personally I think that creating a two tier work force and adding five years on to the working lives of new workers is a very bad result.
As it goes I think that the membership would have rejected a ballot in favour of action against the deal. However firstly I think it should have been put to the vote in terms of basic trade union democracy. For a deal with such huge implications the members should have the final vote on it. Secondly even if the SP leadership couldn't have convinced the membership to fight against it, I think they should have tried and been clear that this deal could have disasterous consequences, at least that way when those consequences become clear the left leaderhship won't be tainted with having said it was a good deal. Lastly I can't work out why the SP said the NUT was wrong to call off strike action in Spring, but have a totally different view in the PCS. I've asked this before and never got any answers.
In terms of the SP event a few Workers Power members did go. Apparently there were also about 12 IBTers (they even brought people in from abroad!), half a dozen CPGBers and a couple of AWLers and a couple of people from Workers Fight. Shock horror no-one from the SWP.
My flat mate who is in the PCS went and said about 350 in the day sessions and about 600-700 at the end rally. About 350 at the end plenary today, but apparently there was a seperate ISR plenary as well. The SP has clearly grown a bit in the past 3-4 years, and I should think the SWP leadership is rather concerned about it given their current troubles.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
cockneyrebel said:
It's strange that there was such a small intervention from other left groups, given that a couple of years ago when the event was much smaller they all used to send squads along. Even the SWP used to send a team, usually made up of mid level functionaries.
cockneyrebel said:
I would think that it's the least of their problems at the moment. The unwillingness to send a RESPECT speaker does tend to imply a certain level of political nervousness though.
cockneyrebel
New Member
I've been in Workers Power about five years, and as far as I know this is the first year we've sent anyone since I joined.
By the way despite you decrying Workers Power as a useless sect, I know that the SP and WP are doing some joint work over the issue of a new workers party, such as in Leicester (where WP and SP members are helping to build the local social forum). A lot of your members who I've met seem to have quite a bit of respect for WP.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
"I know that the SP and WP are doing some joint work over the issue of a new workers party"
Tell the class then.
Tell the class then.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
cockneyrebel said:
Some probably do but I'm meaner and crankier than they are.
cockneyrebel
New Member
I bet you're a real softy in person
Dennisr was a lovely bloke when I met him. And a bit of an 'ard nut
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The two are connected.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I gather that the total number attending some part of the weekend was just shy of 900. Which is double the previous high.
For a Far Left the Socialist Party seem alright; 'alright' as in not necessarily being the Left group with the 'right line' on Ireland, Palestine, New Labour, having links to the trade unions , but rather they come across as more accessible, and just more down to earth, or seem to have less trouble relating to people generally who don't inhabit the world of the far left, and more to the point couldn't care less about it all.
On a personal note someone from the Socialist Party got me out of a fix, when I was in London trying to find the PCS HQ as a PCS Delegate at a meeting which I had to go to. The PCS HQ is at Clapham Junction, but I got it fixed in my head that PCS HQ is around Clapham High Street/Clapham Common, which was over a mile away. After lots of mildly panicky walking around, and drawing blank replies from passers by, when I realised I was lost, I spotted a Socialist Party bookshop in Clapham High Street. The guy there photocopied me a London map, gave me directions, and I eventually found the place no trouble. Can't fault that so respect where it is due if that kind of helpfulness is in anyway representative of an SP member!
On a personal note someone from the Socialist Party got me out of a fix, when I was in London trying to find the PCS HQ as a PCS Delegate at a meeting which I had to go to. The PCS HQ is at Clapham Junction, but I got it fixed in my head that PCS HQ is around Clapham High Street/Clapham Common, which was over a mile away. After lots of mildly panicky walking around, and drawing blank replies from passers by, when I realised I was lost, I spotted a Socialist Party bookshop in Clapham High Street. The guy there photocopied me a London map, gave me directions, and I eventually found the place no trouble. Can't fault that so respect where it is due if that kind of helpfulness is in anyway representative of an SP member!
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Glad I Went
I turned up for the meeting on the 'Awkward Squad' and found the meeting interesting. It was good to see so many Trade Union activists discussing issues, especially around the pensions & PCS. Unlike the 'Students With Placards' Marxism, the SP did'nt act like a cult organisation but chose democratic debate allowing speakers to come back about points raised without shouting them down.
I would have liked to have gone to some of the other debates but could not stay for them, especially Joe Higgins meeting about the Gamma Dispute, which could give considerable lessons in this country about how migrant labour is being exploited by agencies and unscrupulous firms (usually the larger and more unnaccountable corporations).
Incidentely, talking of sects did anyone come across the Socialist Party Of Great Britain(Socialist Standard) advertising and having a meeting (about 60 to 70 people) at the friends meeting house. Trying to coax stragglers to go to 'their' Socialism event?
I turned up for the meeting on the 'Awkward Squad' and found the meeting interesting. It was good to see so many Trade Union activists discussing issues, especially around the pensions & PCS. Unlike the 'Students With Placards' Marxism, the SP did'nt act like a cult organisation but chose democratic debate allowing speakers to come back about points raised without shouting them down.
I would have liked to have gone to some of the other debates but could not stay for them, especially Joe Higgins meeting about the Gamma Dispute, which could give considerable lessons in this country about how migrant labour is being exploited by agencies and unscrupulous firms (usually the larger and more unnaccountable corporations).
Incidentely, talking of sects did anyone come across the Socialist Party Of Great Britain(Socialist Standard) advertising and having a meeting (about 60 to 70 people) at the friends meeting house. Trying to coax stragglers to go to 'their' Socialism event?
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