So, what was the last demo you went to?

[northeastoipunk]

and before people start having a go yes im a skinhead , but not rascist or violent in any way

 

[northeastoipunk]

i presume you can see where im coming from azreal i spent most of that day pulling people from beneath police horses not fighting
state oppression is evil but unfortunatly most of the general public cant see it happening until they witness it for themselves . those on the demos saw next day in the media a total lie about the events of the day previous . the miners saw it week in week out on picket lines

 

[northeastoipunk]

If you post that you're proud to have smashed up a "Nazi bookshop",
i would have posted that i was proud to have smashed up a bookshop but unfortunately we were stopped by the police

 

[janeb]

Yes, it was Lancashire wide - had about 4000 on it (for once no SWP number inflation).

4,000? really? that's an amazing turnout if accurate, I wasn't there so can't judge but knowing the Preston / Lancs scene very well as of 6'ish years ago I'd be astounded with that sort of turn out. What made the difference?

 

[Azrael]

i presume you can see where im coming from azreal

I do, if the people in the "bookshop" were engaged in conspiracy to assault and murder, and the local police were refusing to act on evidence of their guilt. I couldn't say more, not knowing the full circumstances.

My defence of free speech doesn't include speech being used towards a violent end.

 

[scifisam]

hmm.

mine was (depending on your definition of a demo) either gay pride in 1994*, or Student Campaign Againts Militarism's march through leeds in about 1995.



*if, and IF, i remember correctly, one of the last prides that didn't charge to get into the partyfields afterwards.
might be making that up though. and no idea what they do these days. last one i went to was somewhere around 2003 and cost fifteen fucking quid to queue up at a burger van and burst into tears at belinda carlisle singing 'heaven is a place on earth'.

paying to be proud. ffs.

It's been free for the last couple of years too, presuming you're talking about London Pride. Don't know whether Boris will fund the next one. The march has always had political elements, though, so I'd count it as a demo really.

Going on those demos has made me and my daughter appear in several documentaries, because there weren't many gay parents there with their kids, but last year there were tons of parents, and we got a HUGE cheer from the onlookers just by walking past with children and buggies.

My first demo was in Berlin, protesting against abolition of grants. We took over a TV station.

 

[audiotech]

Hardcore!

If the bookshop was a "Nazi bunker", barred to the public, then police inaction against conspiracy to commit murder, and not free speech, was the issue at hand.

also the fact that the police as usual do naff all against the bnp , the police protect the state and that day there was potential for defiance against law and order so once again they instigate riot, pushed from the government ie there bosses and then discredit us in the news and media for protesting against what the vast majority of the country feel is wrong ,the same happened at the big poll tax riot in london it was a peacefull day but the government couldnt have tons of people in london protesting against something that no one was paying and was obviously the worst idea thatcher ever had cos it sent us reeling . obviously she had to save face , lets turn it into a riot and show the country next day in the government owned media that all the looney left instigated this and that were only just trying to keep public order ??we havent got free speech now azreal . they conn us by telling us were a democracy but are we hell , how come the country as a whole were against war in ahfghanistan and the gulf second time around but we still went ?what about the fox hunt debate the country was 90% against at one point so what did they do ban it outright ??no way we will pretend we have so as not to offend our rich toffs who still think its a natural right .
i didnt come in here tonight to debate to be honest someone asked what was the last demo i was on and i answered didnt expect to be questioned about it , i was proud to be on it so were thousands of others probably a lot of forum people too

Oi to that!

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Those Nazi bookshops aren't going to smash themselves up, you know. Somebody's got to get off their arse and do it.

 

[In Bloom]

If you'll excuse the pedantry, riot isn't the same thing as a demonstration. (Assuming you did actually "smash" the "Nazi bookshop".)

On a sidenote, during the recent anti-BNP actions in Liverpool one self-professed BNP member stopped by at News From Nowhere (a local lefty bookshop) and threatened to burn the place to the ground. Turn about is fair play and all that.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

On a sidenote, during the recent anti-BNP actions in Liverpool one self-professed BNP member stopped by at News From Nowhere (a local lefty bookshop) and threatened to burn the place to the ground. Turn about is fair play and all that.

C18 tried to burn down/blow up Freedom once. No one was woken up tho

 

[rekil]

An anti-nazi demo in Berlin about 18 months ago.

 

[gentlegreen]

CND rally - London (1983 ?)

Before that it was Rock Against Racism 1978

So I'm overdue for one.

 

[chilango]

Let's get one thing clear, I'm not defending the "rights" of murderers; I'm defending the rights of us all. You can't be selective with free speech, so if I support it, I have to support it for everyone, however odious. Free speech is very practical: it's what allows you to protest about a wicked crime.

I'm stricking up for the right, not the people.

I'd defend the murderers' right to a fair trial. Then I'd like to see them executed.

I'm also happy for them to have the freedom to say whatever the hell they want.

However, with freedom comes responsibilty.

In this case, accepting that if you spout hateful Nazi crap people may well exercise their own right to a safe and hate free society by trying to smash up yer HQ.

Freedom of speech is largely meaningless without the freedom to act upon your ideas.

 

[marty21]

last one was that big anti-war march in london, about 4 years ago?

first one, probably the big anti-apartheid march in london in 1985, jesse jackson spoke at it, although i may have gone on a student march against the cuts in grants before that (sorry today students)

 

[treelover]

@Linda,

So you didn't go on the big anti-apartheid marches, CND, the Miners Strike, the GLC/L/C cuts events, the Poll Tax, etc? I am genuinely interested to know why you went on no more, family commitments, lost interest, shift to the right?

 

[treelover]

On a sidenote, during the recent anti-BNP actions in Liverpool one self-professed BNP member stopped by at News From Nowhere (a local lefty bookshop) and threatened to burn the place to the ground. Turn about is fair play and all that.

Not for the first time, when it was by the Mersey Tunnel, (NFN that is) I nearly got stabbed trying to stop some scallies from smashing the windows one early morning waiting for the tunnel bus.

 

[In Bloom]

C18 tried to burn down/blow up Freedom once. No one was woken up tho

I'm told it was more like a foul-mouthed, racist toddler having a tantrum in the shop than a genuine threat

 

[articul8]

4,000? really? that's an amazing turnout if accurate, I wasn't there so can't judge but knowing the Preston / Lancs scene very well as of 6'ish years ago I'd be astounded with that sort of turn out. What made the difference?

I think that it was mostly a serious turnout from the Mosques in Preston and Blackburn- aside from that it was mainly familiar faces on the left councillors/trade unionists etc.
There are some pics here:

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3310

 

[janeb]

I think that it was mostly a serious turnout from the Mosques in Preston and Blackburn- aside from that it was mainly familiar faces on the left councillors/trade unionists etc.
There are some pics here:

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3310

Thanks for that, well done them

 

[Azrael]

Freedom of speech is largely meaningless without the freedom to act upon your ideas.

Provided that action is non-violent, sure.

 

[TAE]

I think it was a protest against Israel's attacks in Lebanon.

Have not been well enough to take part in the current protests.

 

[soulman]

The big anti-war demo earlier this decade. 2002 was it? Anyway it got totally ignored by the powers that be who went to war regardless of the numbers of people against it...

 

[Azrael]

The big anti-war demo earlier this decade. 2002 was it? Anyway it got totally ignored by the powers that be who went to war regardless of the numbers of people against it...

15th February 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-war_protest#London

The PTB's blithe dismissal of anywhere between 750,000 and 2 million people hit my faith in the usefullness of protest hard. I'd go on another, but only if it was combined with serious opposition within parliament.

 

[chilango]

Provided that action is non-violent, sure.

Define non-violent.

 

[Azrael]

No attacks on people or property, and no banners inciting violence. Substitute "peaceful" if that's more accurate.

 

[chilango]

No attacks on people or property, and no banners inciting violence. Substitute "peaceful" if that's more accurate.

Ok.

Attacks on property? Define that.

Does disrupting commerce count as an attack on property?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

15th February 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-war_protest#London

The PTB's blithe dismissal of anywhere between 750,000 and 2 million people hit my faith in the usefullness of protest hard. I'd go on another, but only if it was combined with serious opposition within parliament.

Have the other demos you have been on resulted in immediate and meaningful action, then?

 

[Azrael]

Does disrupting commerce count as an attack on property?

Define "disrupting commerce".

I'm clearly not in favour of smashing up private property, which was the issue at hand, so I'm not sure what such minutiae have.

 

[chilango]

Define "disrupting commerce".

I'm clearly not in favour of smashing up private property, which was the issue at hand, so I'm not sure what such minutiae have.

Well "criminal damage" is quite an elastic term as many demo attendees have found out. Is graffitti violent? Is smashing a window violent? Is "stretchinga police warning tape violent? (true example Solsbury Hill 1994)

The ponit is that "violence" like "free speach" is a bit tricky to comfortably divide into black and white. Both are easier to take a stand on in the abstract. Unfortuantely in the real world it aint so easy.

 

[Azrael]

Have the other demos you have been on resulted in immediate and meaningful action, then?

I've only attended the three London demonstrations against the Iraq war, and one in Sheffield town centre, but as you've said, most demonstrations have little effect, hence my disillusionment.

This is a personal choice, not a criticism of other people who choose to attend protests on a regular basis.