discokermit
Well-Known Member
sorry.
So, what was the last demo you went to?
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
think mine was welling smash the nazi book shop one ,that was a long time back but a lot of fun .
discokermit
Well-Known Member
they bricked it a bit, but they did demonstrate beforehand.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
which welling one we on about?
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Just criminal damage then, excuse me.
Ah, the irony of a thread celebrating free speech being used to celebrate a violent attack on someone else's free speech!
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
Geri
wasn't born to follow
Oh fuck off, you tool. Loads of people went on that/those demos without smashing anything up or getting violent.
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
the police kicked that riot off not us we helped finnish it , they hemmed us in taunting us then horse charged and baton charged us as is the usual , you had to be there up front to have witnessed the truth that day . i was even shocked . had to pull people out from under horses there were people in wheelchairs up front too , at a very legit demonstration
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Haven't done any since I was up at Faslane back in April 2007. Was fun though, we had homemade concrete lock-ons and everything. When the filth cut us out they were less than amused to discover that we'd laced the concrete with steel cables, rubber belts and cutlery 
#
E2a: My first one was against a park and ride scheme (read excuse to sell off public greenfield land for housing after the scheme failed, why does a car park need a gas main?) back when I was about 12.
#E2a: My first one was against a park and ride scheme (read excuse to sell off public greenfield land for housing after the scheme failed, why does a car park need a gas main?) back when I was about 12.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
You didn't mention police lawlessness in your first post, you said a protest to "smash up a Nazi bookshop" was "a lot of fun". I'm trying to think of some combination of circumstances where lobbing bricks at a bookshop in necessary to fend off the police, but I'm failing.
Of course, maybe it just got out of hand and people took out their frustration on the local bootboys. That doesn't explain condoning it a good while later.
Your point?
Selling books of racialist filth and murdering people occupy different points on the moral scale, no?
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
Not too worried about the moral scale.
Its the practical one I'm concerned about.
Anyhow, my point is that my last demo attendance had nowt to do with free speach or its celebration, but was a reaction to a brutal crime comitted by thosewhose rights you seem to seek to defend.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Let's get one thing clear, I'm not defending the "rights" of murderers; I'm defending the rights of us all. You can't be selective with free speech, so if I support it, I have to support it for everyone, however odious. Free speech is very practical: it's what allows you to protest about a wicked crime.
I'm stricking up for the right, not the people.
I'd defend the murderers' right to a fair trial. Then I'd like to see them executed.
Dimitris
Well-Known Member
first: 17th November 1995, Athens Greece, the annual demo for the polytechnic uprising against the junta (17/11/73)
Last: a few hours ago in Exarchia Athens, a demo organized by the citizens of Exarchia asking for all the cops to leave the area.
In UK I have been in 2 anti war demos in London, one was for Palestine (I think 2000?) and one more for Afghanistan
Last: a few hours ago in Exarchia Athens, a demo organized by the citizens of Exarchia asking for all the cops to leave the area.
In UK I have been in 2 anti war demos in London, one was for Palestine (I think 2000?) and one more for Afghanistan
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
we went that day to take that shop down brick by brick if we d had our way believe me , at the time this innocent supposed book shop that wasnt open to the public i must add was opened , there was 4 race related killings in the area no coincidence ?
that day the police made sure no one got near it which i suppose they had to , but the road we marched up forked one way to book shop the other to the left to a park and rally point , we wernt allowed to go either way they hemmed us in with thousands pushing from behind us with no where to go then attacked for no reason whatso ever .
free speech for those nazis who will murder , and then take away any right to free speech if ever elected by taking away all democracy NO CHANCE
that day the police made sure no one got near it which i suppose they had to , but the road we marched up forked one way to book shop the other to the left to a park and rally point , we wernt allowed to go either way they hemmed us in with thousands pushing from behind us with no where to go then attacked for no reason whatso ever .
free speech for those nazis who will murder , and then take away any right to free speech if ever elected by taking away all democracy NO CHANCE
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
first, anti war protest in late 2002 i think about september with about 100,000 people on it, just after or before the pro hunt one.
last, shut down the red white and blue festival demonstration this summer.
last, shut down the red white and blue festival demonstration this summer.
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Since you admit deliberate intent to destroy the bookshop, let's follow the logic of your motives through.
Are you claiming that four decent, law-abiding members of society were turned into murderers by visiting a bookshop? If not, then these people were predisposed to commit murder, and if a book can trigger their homicidal urges, anything could.
You can't restrict speech for individual "Nazi murderers": you have to restrict it for everyone. Problem is, once the precedent is set, the state can keep coming up with new excuses, and before you know it, it's a crime to "glorify terrorism", cause "alarm and distress", and to "incite religious hatred".
You can denounce Nazis all you like, but there's going to be an awful lot of collateral damage.
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
im saying it wasnt a bookshop it was a nazi bunker , you or i couldnt visit it to buy a book , and was it just a coincidence that there were 4 completely racist murders in the area around the tiime the bnp opened it ? i personally dont think so .
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
hitler said himself in mein kampf the only way he could have been stopped was by utmost brutality from the very start
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
And we're to give credence to Hitler's deranged writings?
The USA, where the ACLU will protect the First Amendment rights of people worse than Mr Griffin and Mr Collett, has just elected their first black president. Which suggests that "free speech = Hitlerism" is a bankrupt equation. I'd hazard that the economic and social disintegration of Weimar had rather more to do with the Nazi's rise than their right to express their poison.
If the bookshop was a "Nazi bunker", barred to the public, then police inaction against conspiracy to commit murder, and not free speech, was the issue at hand.
I'm ashamed to confess it was 1981 or 82 - a Reclaim the Night march when we'd had the usual police response to a couple of rapes. 
Which was followed by the police arresting the march leaders when a gang of skinheads started stoning us.
Still, the vigil outside the police station until the women were released was fun
Almost as satisfying as the look on the Chief Super's face the following morning when he called a press conference to try and dismiss the whole business, only to discover that every media outlet just happened to have sent a member of the NUJ Women's Committee, and all but one had been on the march.
Terrible abuse of our position, of course...
Which was followed by the police arresting the march leaders when a gang of skinheads started stoning us.
Still, the vigil outside the police station until the women were released was fun
Almost as satisfying as the look on the Chief Super's face the following morning when he called a press conference to try and dismiss the whole business, only to discover that every media outlet just happened to have sent a member of the NUJ Women's Committee, and all but one had been on the march.
Terrible abuse of our position, of course...
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
If the bookshop was a "Nazi bunker", barred to the public, then police inaction against conspiracy to commit murder, and not free speech, was the issue at hand.
also the fact that the police as usual do naff all against the bnp , the police protect the state and that day there was potential for defiance against law and order so once again they instigate riot, pushed from the government ie there bosses and then discredit us in the news and media for protesting against what the vast majority of the country feel is wrong ,the same happened at the big poll tax riot in london it was a peacefull day but the government couldnt have tons of people in london protesting against something that no one was paying and was obviously the worst idea thatcher ever had cos it sent us reeling . obviously she had to save face , lets turn it into a riot and show the country next day in the government owned media that all the looney left instigated this and that were only just trying to keep public order ??we havent got free speech now azreal . they conn us by telling us were a democracy but are we hell , how come the country as a whole were against war in ahfghanistan and the gulf second time around but we still went ?what about the fox hunt debate the country was 90% against at one point so what did they do ban it outright ??no way we will pretend we have so as not to offend our rich toffs who still think its a natural right .
i didnt come in here tonight to debate to be honest someone asked what was the last demo i was on and i answered didnt expect to be questioned about it , i was proud to be on it so were thousands of others probably a lot of forum people too
also the fact that the police as usual do naff all against the bnp , the police protect the state and that day there was potential for defiance against law and order so once again they instigate riot, pushed from the government ie there bosses and then discredit us in the news and media for protesting against what the vast majority of the country feel is wrong ,the same happened at the big poll tax riot in london it was a peacefull day but the government couldnt have tons of people in london protesting against something that no one was paying and was obviously the worst idea thatcher ever had cos it sent us reeling . obviously she had to save face , lets turn it into a riot and show the country next day in the government owned media that all the looney left instigated this and that were only just trying to keep public order ??we havent got free speech now azreal . they conn us by telling us were a democracy but are we hell , how come the country as a whole were against war in ahfghanistan and the gulf second time around but we still went ?what about the fox hunt debate the country was 90% against at one point so what did they do ban it outright ??no way we will pretend we have so as not to offend our rich toffs who still think its a natural right .
i didnt come in here tonight to debate to be honest someone asked what was the last demo i was on and i answered didnt expect to be questioned about it , i was proud to be on it so were thousands of others probably a lot of forum people too
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
I'm ashamed to confess it was 1981 or 82 - a Reclaim the Night march when we'd had the usual police response to a couple of rapes.
Which was followed by the police arresting the march leaders when a gang of skinheads started stoning us.
Still, the vigil outside the police station until the women were released was fun
Almost as satisfying as the look on the Chief Super's face the following morning when he called a press conference to try and dismiss the whole business, only to discover that every media outlet just happened to have sent a member of the NUJ Women's Committee, and all but one had been on the march.
Terrible abuse of our position, of course...
linda please dont you start questioning me lol im a skinhead and would have been standing with you not stoning ive had enough debate for one night lol
northeastoipunk
bash the rich
we have to question where to draw the line azreal , and at what point do we kick off and do something cos we cant do it through democratic means . i grew up in the biggest recruitment ground for the nf in the mid 80s it i witnessed kev turner stab my mate davy adams 8 times in the back cos he was mixed race (you wouldnt know to look at him either )then saw kev being hailed as a political prisoner to the nf a prisoner of concience ???davy topped himself years later cos he couldnt cope with the pressures of kev being released from prison . the bnp like to let us think they are a credible party by ditching the skinhead image and donning shirts and ties but that is there politics . foot soldiers beating up any opposition by the back door what do you do there write to your local mp ???or do something about it ??
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
If you post that you're proud to have smashed up a "Nazi bookshop", you can't be too surprised if you're asked to elaborate. (If your original description had been more accurate, I would probably have approached it differently.) I don't speak on behalf of other posters, or seek to.
Regarding your other comments: I agree that the police aren't impartial. Ideally we wouldn't have such an organisation, but it's probably necessary, so I content myself with supporting due process checks on their power.
I also agree that we're not a "democracy"; we're a constitutional monarchy with representative government. A necessary form if we're to enjoy protection from the tyranny of the majority.
Fox hunting is an odd pursuit, but as the ban springs from class hatred and not animal welfare, I oppose it.
State suppression of peaceful protest is a disgrace, but violent actions give aid to the authoritarian case.
No, we haven't got free speech. Beside the USA, I'm aware of no Western democracy that has. But I support it, so I must defend the right across the board, even for people who advocate vile racialist dogma.
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