So were we lied to about liquid explosives or not?

[max_freakout]

The plot to blow up the planes with liquid explosive, it seems several reliable sources have said it's impossible logistically to get liquid explosives like that onto a plane

So were we lied to for the sake of a bit of fear-mongering anti-alquaeda sentiment to get the whole country whipped up into a patriotic frenzy? Or was it a genuine threat to our airlines, that necessitated the RIDICULOUS security measures, the delays etc etc

Whats the urban consensus?

 

[exleper]

my friends went on holiday round europe and on the flight home they had run out of money. since their bottles of water were confiscated at check in and they couldnt afford the £2 bottles of water being offered on the flight, they had to go without for the duration of the 2/3 hour flight. this was in august in the blistering heat. i thought this was a ridiculous and thoughtless rule, and completely dickheadish of the airline (who im pretty sure were a budget airline) not to offer free water.

i dont know all the facts about liquid explosives but i suspect its more about the post-9/11 climate of fear, etc, instead of a real and present danger.

 

[Maggot]

We have no way of knowing and might as well wait for the trial.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

well as it was technically impossible to do as this articule describes

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs/

then i'd say that the actual plot would be impossible, coupulled with the fact that most of the arrested didn't have passports which again would lead one to beleive it woul dbe hard for them to board a plane falling at th first hurdle (the check in!!) it would make the grounding for such a plot flimsey to say the least.

However, the question really is would that stop someone or some group attempting it, and did the actions and arrests prevent that attempt?

in both questions i personally think the answer is no it was an over reaction to a non threatening situation, but the potential consiquences for under reaction are also quite dire....

mind you i wouldn't put it past this goverment or any on the TWAT to make it up as and when they felt like it...

 

[waverunner]

Have you seen those southpark episodes, cartoon wars parts 1 and 2? It's actually relevant to the topic being discussed, sort of.. it's about fear mongering..http://www.allsp.com/ season 10

 

[CA9I]

So were we lied to about liquid explosives or not?

Mais évidemment!

 

[Cerisa]

If so then i would be pretty pissed off - my mum had some really expensive make up confiscated - and kept - at the airport. All she was allowed to keep was a face powder and a pencil eyeliner. Will someone please explain why foundation and lipstick look like explosives?

 

[max_freakout]

what is the evidence that we WEREN'T sold a massive propaganda lie then?

I mean what evidence is there that there was actually a plot to get liquid explosives past customs onto an aeroplane by Muslim terrorists?

 

[editor]

what is the evidence that we WEREN'T sold a massive propaganda lie then?

I mean what evidence is there that there was actually a plot to get liquid explosives past customs onto an aeroplane by Muslim terrorists?

Why not wait until the trial when the full evidence will be presented?

 

[mauvais]

Still looking good for not having to eat my own hands

 

[boskysquelch]

Still looking good for not having to eat my own hands

I'm sure most of us would jus be happy enough to see them in formaldahyde...can you use your remote release with your nose?

You could start practising in anticipation n'est pas?

 

[gnoriac]

It does all sem very dodgy, yet how could the security services f**k over a major industry like that if they had no proof / tenuous proof / whatever of a not very credible plot?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It does all sem very dodgy, yet how could the security services f**k over a major industry like that if they had no proof / tenuous proof / whatever of a not very credible plot?

thing is that it hasn't really fucked over the industry that much has it...

the service sectors sell water and rinks before boarding which you then can't take on the plane so have to be discarded, the plane companies then have a captive audence for drinks on the plane at a premium rate. all people have to check in earlier than usual in order to succome to additional security checks, they can now pick and choose who they let on the plane (mr and mrs arsey from arsyland no longer get to board for terrorist reasons, mr and mrs look to dark skinned can be banned instantly for the same reasons mr and mrs screaming baby ditto if the milks not tested.)

they no longer have to give any reason or reasonable timescale for delays or for that matter compensation because of terroist reasons... etc

lost baggage, stolen luggage property ... suspect package...

can't take that on board, in the hold oops that means you're over your allocation excess baggage charges...

etc etc etc

 

[Psychonaut]

I dont know whats more insulting; this fairytale or the fact that a few months back the white terrorists actually had bomb factories & a rocket launcher IRL and they didnt even tell us.

 

[Jazzz]

Why not wait until the trial when the full evidence will be presented?

Ah, editor's safe option: never venture an opinion on anything unless you have to

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I dont know whats more insulting; this fairytale or the fact that a few months back the white terrorists actually had bomb factories & a rocket launcher IRL and they didnt even tell us.

Not serviceable for taking votes off the BNP, so why waste the PR effort on it?

 

[laptop]

well as it was technically impossible to do as this articule describes

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs/

I'm afraid it describes no such thing.

What it debunks is a fictious plot made up by technophobic journalists, who were ripping off the plot of some Hollywood movie. That was about manufacturing explosives in the plane toilets. It was not what was suggested by the leaks from the investigation, for those capable of reading.

I'm afraid that there are several technical possibilities that are entirely compatible with the few details actually released of the alleged plot.

On the day of the arrests, it took me five minutes to google up recipes, warnings of hazards to watch out for, user reports of the efficacy of the explosives in question in blowing holes in US backyards... a day later, of course, these simple searches were swamped by results for news reports of the alleged plot.

Of course, I have since forgotten everything I found - please don't arrest me

 

[editor]

Ah, editor's safe option: never venture an opinion on anything unless you have to

Better than Jazzz's lunatic option: make up disgusting fantasies that totally exonerate a child murdering paedophile scumbag just because you read some deluded bullshit on some nutcase's website.

 

[Dhimmi]

Whats the urban consensus?

Generally see what the trial decides.
I vaguely recall a PFLP attack on a passenger plane in the 70's which used liquid explosives, can't recall the details though. Maybe someone on here could.

 

[max_freakout]

It does all sem very dodgy, yet how could the security services f**k over a major industry like that if they had no proof / tenuous proof / whatever of a not very credible plot?

That is a very good question, i eagerly await the answer to all this.....

 

[Jazzz]

Better than Jazzz's lunatic option: make up disgusting fantasies that totally exonerate a child murdering paedophile scumbag just because you read some deluded bullshit on some nutcase's website.

Oh, look, he's talking about a thread from several years back

 

[DJ Squelch]

Generally see what the trial decides.
I vaguely regard a PFLP attack on a passenger plane in the 70's which used liquid explosives, can't recall the details though. Maybe someone on here could.

There was also the failed Operation Bojinka. Technically I think it was possible.

 

[weltweit]

I don't think with this sort of thing that we will ever know the truth.

 

[Lock&Light]

Oh, look, he's talking about a thread from several years back

Face it, Jazzz, that thread can never be forgotten for as long as you continue to spout similar nonsense.

 

[editor]

Oh, look, he's talking about a thread from several years back

There's ample more recent examples of you jumping to wild conclusions in your obsessive quest to find a conspiracy behind every major news event, but seeing as you charged in with the unprovoked personal shit on this thread, I thought I'd remind people about just how looooooooow you can go.

 

[Jazzz]

There's ample more recent examples of you jumping to wild conclusions in your obsessive quest to find a conspiracy behind every major news event, but seeing as you charged in with the unprovoked personal shit on this thread, I thought I'd remind people about just how looooooooow you can go.

What the fuck do you mean, 'personal shit'? You're the one that's behaving low here.

Get a grip!

 

[editor]

What the fuck do you mean, 'personal shit'? You're the one that's behaving low here.

Right here:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5304596&postcount=15

And how's telling the truth about your antics here 'behaving low'?

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

Given the discrepency between true facts and the hysterical bullshit we were fed regarding 'The Ricin Plot' and the tragic 'Stockwell Shooting', amongst others, the UK Police don't really have a very good record in this respect.

Why not wait until the trial when the full evidence will be presented?

Because - again - the record shows that even if they secure convictions, it doesn't mean that the 'Baby Bottle Bomb' plot should automatically be believed.

Consider for example the cases of Danny McNamee, Judith Ward, The Birmingham Six, The Guilford Four, or The McGuire Seven.

Not exactly a stirling record. Certainly not grounds to blindly and unquestioningly trust in the 'authorities' to give us the true facts regarding the matter of the arrests made on August 10th - which is what you appear to advocate. Perhaps you have *other* information that leads you to do so?

It might be a good time to (re)watch The Power of Nightmares.

 

[pk]

Let's not fuck about.

The 'climate of fear' has proved very, very useful to those who would wish 'free' citizens to be subject to the maximum taxation but with the minimum of service in return.

But the nature of government is to govern.

This is how we are governed.

And if the powers that be choose to kill their subjects in order to achive some higher aim - they will do so with no remorse or regret.

PAUL BURRELL: About my unique relationship with the princess, about my closeness with her. I wasn't the most popular person in the world, you know, at times, because I did share a very intimate time with the princess, and other people were very jealous.

ZAHN: But there are so many people questioning your intentions, particularly when it came to this letter that you released where Diana basically predicted her own death, naming the person she thought was trying to kill her. Don't you understand while turning that letter over six years later would have people say that -- accuse you of cashing in?

BURRELL: I do. I understand that, but I'm constantly criticized and misrepresented myself. You know, you have to look back. I take you back into that time when we were all grieving the loss of the princess, and I had to go to Paris and be with the princess to protect her. I brought her home and looked after her. And I was in grief, too. I remember the queen asked to see me at Buckingham Palace, and she warned me about the forces at work in the country, dark forces. I'm thinking, I'm frightened here, you know. This is my security, too, thinking what about my family? What about me? What's going to happen to us? And I had to think very seriously waiting for that inquest to happen. Six years on and still no inquest, waiting for the official line, waiting for the proper authority to give it to.

 

[Jazzz]

Right here:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...6&postcount=15

And how's telling the truth about your antics here 'behaving low'?

If you call that gentle pisstake of your pointed insistence that we must wait for a trial before ridiculing the latest terror scare 'personal shit', I can only say that your position of power here has warped your brain, because if an ordinary poster here reported such a post, the moderators would laugh their heads off.

Are you drunk?