So we are all agreed that England are awful at penalty shoot outs, right?

[david dissadent]

But the roster of kickers changes depending on what happens in the game. The only constant is the goalie.

The penalty takers have to keep there bottle. If they do the goalie is a spectator.

 

[William of Walworth]

Funny the only Englishman to score has never lived in England and played in Germany since 16. There is something inherant in British sportpersons that so many of them choke.

Dodgily sweeping assertion there IMO ....

Bit of applied sports psychology, plus some the 'stars' getting some serious arrogance/complacency reduction, plus some SERIOUS all-team training on defending penalties and setpieces generally, and that 'inherent' shitness could be knocked out of them no bother ... they could end up no worse at pens and setpieces than Germany, if the right training was brought in.

 

[david dissadent]

Dodgily sweeping assertion there IMO ....

Bit of applied sports psychology, plus some the 'stars' getting some serious arrogance/complacency reduction, plus some SERIOUS all-team training on defending penalties and setpieces generally, and that 'inherent' shitness could be knocked out of them no bother ... they could end up no worse at pens and setpieces than Germany, if the right training was brought in.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1811465,00.html

Im not alone in noticing that. But you are also right as to the cure.

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

But the roster of kickers changes depending on what happens in the game. The only constant is the goalie.

Unless he gets substituted during the game as well.

The problem England had was that the players were expecting to miss, if you watch the run up their heads are down, wheras the Portugese were walking with ttheir heads held high. Basic psychological mind games really, England have got so used to losing in penalty shoot-outs that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, which makes the next one even harder to win and so on. There needs to be a fresh attitude brought in to give the players confidence.

 

[hektik]

i reckon that instead of letting the player choose where he kicks the ball, he hsould be just told: "you: kick low and left and hard". "you: right, low and hard."
"you: right low and hard".

if they haven't got the pychological nouse to decide for themselves, they should have that decision taken away from them: at least it would be one less thing for them to think about as they stroll up to the penalty spot.

 

[hektik]

The problem England had was that the players were expecting to miss, if you watch the run up their heads are down, wheras the Portugese were walking with ttheir heads held high.

true enough: compare gerrard, who looked like he was going to be sick at the thought of kicking a ball 12 yeards or so; and ronaldo, who looked as though he was just about to take a penalty against his 3 year old brother in the back garden.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

dave to be fair West ham have always had great penalty takers.

I remember Dicks taking a penalty against Spurs once and the commentator said that it was a good thing the keeper hadn't got a hand to it cos it would have come off

Maybe Engalnd should get him in to coach penalty taking

But West Ham (with, 'concidentially', a large English contingent) have always been shit at shootouts too! Remember the cup final.

IIRC we've only ever won ONE shootout, and that turned out to be a fucking phantom one as the game had to be replayed... (The Omoynimi farce)

 

[Descartes]

Zed,

It's about the time you spend get the kicking right, the touch, the instinctive touch... where you want it to go and where it ends up... the little touches to lobe it over he goalie, to touch off of the toe to flip it across the running player who is just about to over lap... it's all about having kick the little bag of air so many times you know where's its going... you don't have to pause and think ohhh err... just ... and the other player has taken it and is running towards goal.... The place the ball, turn it so the name is in line with your direction... concentrate on where to place it and .. put it there..... the mind set.. should not be a consideration and think...... it should natural, instinctive and ... Goal.

If you practice one single item, the karate Kid, polish on and polish off.... the movement is instinctive... no thinking where or how.... just standing and kicking towards a gaol from one position.. incessantly... for an hour each week... .. The number if times ' set moves ' are practiced.. the running onto the ball to kick, each player takes turns as both sender and receiver... running into place past other players.... again, mind set.... not having to think... seeing the move and running into place.....

We lacked the wall passes, running for one and other, moving as a triagle... doing the unexpected... taking a man out of position. to allow another man to run through, over lap from the wings and move across... all totally lacking....

The mantra every England player should have learnt and made to chant... 'possession' ... repeat after me... possession.... if the other team does not have the ball....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You're doing this deliberately now aren't you?

\

Doing what?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The penalty takers have to keep there bottle. If they do the goalie is a spectator.

My point is that it all comes down to whether or not the goalie is any good. IMO, it's a bad way to end the hard work of a tie game, is all.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Unless he gets substituted during the game as well.

The problem England had was that the players were expecting to miss, if you watch the run up their heads are down, wheras the Portugese were walking with ttheir heads held high. Basic psychological mind games really, England have got so used to losing in penalty shoot-outs that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, which makes the next one even harder to win and so on. There needs to be a fresh attitude brought in to give the players confidence.

You might be right about the psychology bit. You could tell watching the Brazilian kickers pre kick, that they didn't expect to be successful.

 

[Descartes]

After careful consideration, two points, te repeated word by diferent players, ' Deserved'. If the players beleived they deserved to win, forget it... they have lost. Which leads to the next point, they began to believe their own publicity.

The death knell of success in any shape or form.

 

[zed]

For once I agree with zed about something .... bring in some psychologists and get the MENTAL training right.

Blimey, that's a bit sanctimonious, even for you William.

Right ...all I need now is for someone to translate Descartes posts for me.

 

[William of Walworth]

Blimey, that's a bit sanctimonious, even for you William.

Kindly fuck off with the sneery snideness, unless you've got something to say in response to my actual suggestion???

Precisely what is wrong with suggesting psychological training for penalties? I'm only following other peoples' suggestions, it's not that original.

Most of the England team were hardly masters of resolve and sortedness with penalties on Saturday were they?

 

[William of Walworth]

Sorry, but calling someone 'sanctimonious'** for having an opinion is one my pet hates ... generally proof that said someone is asneeering wanker ....

**Along with accusations of being a 'do-gooder', of being 'politically correct', of being a 'liberal Guardian reader' and other such book of cliche rubbish,

 

[zed]

Kindly fuck off with the sneery snideness, unless you've got something to say in response to my actual suggestion???

Precisely what is wrong with suggesting psychological training for penalties? I'm only following other peoples' suggestions, it's not that original.

Most of the England team were hardly masters of resolve and sortedness with penalties on Saturday were they?

Don't be a cunt all your life William. The sanctimonious comment was directed at this comment ..."For once I agree with zed about something" ...not your opinion on the subject matter.

 

[William of Walworth]

Don't be a cunt all your life William. The sanctimonious comment was directed at this comment ..."For once I agree with zed about something" ...not your opinion on the subject matter.

Well, I was agreeing with you! On this occasion.

 

[Descartes]

Zed, what would you liked translated.... too many of the posts relate to thinking about football and not actually playing football .. two very different subjects...

The ability to kick without having to think where to place the ball.. and suddenly someone tells them to ... upsets the whole thinking process.....

have you ever walked around the playground of an inner city school... there is always a wall marked out with rings .. for the young football fans to practice just kicking the ball at a specific target... that's all it is... nothing higher level of concentration but the ability to strike the ball and make it go in a preordained path and exactly where the striker wanted it to go... not a moving ball but a dead ball situation...

Now, that's not rocket science..... is it? .. but for some reason a greater pressure is created and not addressed by the trainers, sports specialists etc etc... .. for anyone having played at any level. school, weekend league or semi pro.... will be aware of the confidence to literally walk up and kick the ball.

 

[zed]

Zed, what would you liked translated.... too many of the posts relate to thinking about football and not actually playing football .. two very different subjects...

The ability to kick without having to think where to place the ball.. and suddenly someone tells them to ... upsets the whole thinking process.....

have you ever walked around the playground of an inner city school... there is always a wall marked out with rings .. for the young football fans to practice just kicking the ball at a specific target... that's all it is... nothing higher level of concentration but the ability to strike the ball and make it go in a preordained path and exactly where the striker wanted it to go... not a moving ball but a dead ball situation...

Now, that's not rocket science..... is it? .. but for some reason a greater pressure is created and not addressed by the trainers, sports specialists etc etc... .. for anyone having played at any level. school, weekend league or semi pro.... will be aware of the confidence to literally walk up and kick the ball.

OK, thanks. Now I get where you're coming from.

Yes, I used to play another sport to a fairly high level as an amateur and the ability to make shots without engaging the concious part of the brain was very important ...expecially under pressure.