So the fuckers vote for longer uncharged detention

[Udo Erasmus]

Jon Crudas, Leader of the Compass group supported 42 days

 

[glenquagmire]

Jon Trickett has just been forced to resign as Parliamentary Spokesman of the Compass group for also supporting 42 days.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

42 Days in the UK.
Does anyone know how many days people can get locked up in other countries such as the US or European countries + dodgy regimes?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Jon Crudas, Leader of the Compass group supported 42 days

He'd be worried about being seen to be soft on muslim terror in Dagenham. Would make the seat vunerable - although they would't win - would reduce his majority by people turning to the far right.

 

[mk12]

And the point you're making is what?

That according to this poll, the British public support Brown.

 

[poster342002]

42 Days in the UK.
Does anyone know how many days people can get locked up in other countries such as the US or European countries + dodgy regimes?

Apparently, even China doesn't hold people for this long without trial. Their limit is 38 days - so that's the kind of yardstick we're measuring up against.

 

[poster342002]

Just wait until the first cases of local councils using this law over overfilled dustbins or somesuch.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Apparently, even China doesn't hold people for this long without trial. They're limit is 38 days - so that's the kind of yardstick we're measuring up against.

what's the USA limit?

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Dai Davies supported the government

 

[poster342002]

what's the USA limit?

Not sure - 48 hours, I think - but it gets complicated by the fact that they can stick them in Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Haller]

Dai Davies supported the government

And is now resigning as an MP.

Oh hang on, that's David Davies isn't it.

 

[cockneyrebel]

That according to this poll, the British public support Brown.

And what?

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Dai Davies supported the government

Are you sure? He is the MP for Blaenau Gwent People's Voice?
David Davies is a Tory MP.

Edited to add: http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news...ention-bill-thanks-to-the-dup-91466-21061089/

Yep he voted for it

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Just shows what a bad situation Brown is in that even when going for a popular policy he still makes himself look bad and has come out of it looking desperate. There is nothing Brown can do now to turn things around, he's finished like John Major was.

Yep and in much the same way too: relying on the Ulster MPs to get his legislation passed...

 

[agricola]

Are you sure? He is the MP for Blaenau Gwent People's Voice?
David Davies is a Tory MP.

David Davies has resigned from the Tory frontbench and as an MP, though he is apparently going to stand in the by-election "without the support of Tory HQ".. utterly bizarre. His statement is at 1300.

 

[Haller]

David Davies has resigned from the Tory frontbench and as an MP, though he is apparently going to stand in the by-election "without the support of Tory HQ".. utterly bizarre. His statement is at 1300.

Could be spectacular.

 

[agricola]

Could be spectacular.

Nick Robinson now says this is solely over the 42 days issue, and the Libs (nearest rivals) are not going to run against him. If this is the case, hats off to him for putting his career on the line. Statement follows...

edit: he is going to fight the by-election based on ID Cards, cctv, the erosion of civil liberties and the power of the state, with 42 days being the final straw. Good on him.

 

[Haller]

Nick Robinson now says this is solely over the 42 days issue, and the Libs (nearest rivals) are not going to run against him. If this is the case, hats off to him for putting his career on the line. Statement follows...

His statement makes it clear it's well beyond 42 days. Brings in ID cards, DNA database, CCTV: 'the slow strangulation of fundamental British freedoms by this government'.

A man of some principle.

 

[treelover]

Pity he is a rather extreme right winger, new labour will love this, divisions in the Tory party. etc.

 

[poster342002]

His statement makes it clear it's well beyond 42 days. Brings in ID cards, DNA database, CCTV: 'the slow strangulation of fundamental British freedoms by this government'.

A man of some principle.

Well done and fair play to him. What a shame the left has been unable to produce anyone capable of this - thus leaving the mantle of ""defender of liberties" to a tory. What a shocking indictemnt of the state of the left today and the times we live in.

 

[scifisam]

The good guys (on this issue, at least - Labour MPs who voted against their party. All the LibDems and all but one of the Tories voted against as well, but they could just have been following the party line):

Diane Abbott
Richard Burden
Katy Clark
Harry Cohen
Frank Cook
Jeremy Corbyn
Jim Cousins
Andrew Dismore
Frank Dobson
David Drew
Paul Farrelly
Mark Fisher
Paul Flynn
Neil Gerrard
Ian Gibson
Roger Godsiff
John Grogan
Dai Havard
Kate Hoey
Kelvin Hopkins
Glenda Jackson
Lynne Jones
Peter Kilfoyle
Andrew MacKinlay
Bob Marshall-Andrews
John McDonnell
Michael Meacher
Julie Morgan
Chris Mullin
Douglas Naysmith
Gordon Prentice
Linda Riordan
Alan Simpson
Emily Thornberry
David Winnick
Mike Wood


Mackinlay used to be my MO when I lived in Essex, and he's about the best constituency MP you could hope for. Unfortunately, I'm not sure people will remember that come the next election.

 

[rogue_lettuce]

Firstly, nobody here appears to have pointed out that the lords cannot "save us" any more - *EDITED:blah blah I spoke some rubbish that was wrong here*

Secondly, I wonder if my dream about rioting in Cambridge was related to this...

Thirdly, 'we' (the people/the lefties/the proles/the middle class whingers/whatever) always complain when things piss us off - how about for once we congratulate someone on a job well done? I would suggest that everyone who feels strongly about this writes a letter to a labour rebel picked from that list, to thank them. (You could write to others but their party whips were against it anyway so they were just doing their jobs, whether they would have voted that way on conscience or not... I imagine that writing to people who took a stand and risked something would be more effective in convincing them they did the right thing, thus hopefully making them do it again in the future)

 

[Brainaddict]

Firstly, nobody here appears to have pointed out that the lords cannot "save us" any more - New Labour made sure of that, remember? All they can do is delay it by one parliamentary session (one year), after which it comes onto the statute books regardless of what the lords do.

A factual point: new labour didn't pass the parliament act which enables the government to force legislation through against the lords - that power has been available for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Act

The point about the Lords turning it down is not that they might be able to stop it outright but they can - as the hunting furore showed - make life a living hell for the government. For a leader with a strong grip on power this wouldn't matter *too* much but for someone in Brown's position? With any luck it will be political suicide

 

[CyberRose]

I thought everyone would be happy that the government finally did something the British population actually supported!

 

[rogue_lettuce]

A factual point: new labour didn't pass the parliament act which enables the government to force legislation through against the lords - that power has been available for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Act

The point about the Lords turning it down is not that they might be able to stop it outright but they can - as the hunting furore showed - make life a living hell for the government. For a leader with a strong grip on power this wouldn't matter *too* much but for someone in Brown's position? With any luck it will be political suicide

You are quite right, and I was just about to edit my post to reflect that. In the midst of an 'off moment' I was thinking it was the House Of Lords Reform Act, not the Parliament Act, which gave them the power to do so. I just remembered, and you'd already picked up on my mistake. Bastard

I don't think the lords would do too much damage to Brown by fighting him tooth and nail over this, because he's got the public mood on his side - unlike the foxhunting fiasco, where opinion was pretty evenly split (unless you believe that stupid Cuntryside Alliance claim that '97% of the public say yes [to foxhunting]'), and other instances where the Parliament Act has been used in the past (eg. lowering the age of consent for same-sex sexual activity)

PS: Also, it's two parliamentary sessions over one year, not one session over one year.

 

[Teaboy]

I don't think the lords would do too much damage to Brown by fighting him tooth and nail over this, because he's got the public mood on his side - unlike the foxhunting fiasco, where opinion was pretty evenly split (unless you believe that stupid Cuntryside Alliance claim that '97% of the public say yes [to foxhunting]'), and other instances where the Parliament Act has been used in the past (eg. lowering the age of consent for same-sex sexual activity)

PS: Also, it's two parliamentary sessions over one year, not one session over one year.

I'm not so sure. I've got high hopes for The Lords. Firstly it's stacked full of old judges and barristers who unanomously hate this bill. Secondly the whips do not have half as much influence in the Lords and thirdly the voters do not have fear of losing their chance of a nice cabinet job.

Personally I think the Lords will make it hell for Gordan and rightly so, but it fucking comes to something when you have to rely on the Lords.

I can though see the Parliament Act being invoked again though.

ETA - I see the tories are saying they will repeal this law anyway, and surprisingly I actually believe them. So as it looks like the tories are a dead cert for the next election I reckon this will be a very short lived law even if it ever gets onto the statute.

 

[agricola]

Returning to yesterday, here is Dianne Abbott's speech, and the rest of the debate.

 

[rogue_lettuce]

I didn't say that I didn't think the lords would vote against it, I said I didn't think it would be an embarassment for him if they did so, as public opinion would be on his side, against "those bloody stuck up inbred twats" or whatever it is they get called when people are in a bad mood with them.

 

[Darios]

Does anyone think this might not have happened in a political climate that didn't tolerate an ever increasing extension of the uncharged detention period (amongst many other odious things being tolerated alongside)?

 

[audiotech]

Well done and fair play to him. What a shame the left has been unable to produce anyone capable of this - thus leaving the mantle of ""defender of liberties" to a tory. What a shocking indictemnt of the state of the left today and the times we live in.

State of the left in the Labour party would be more apt.