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So, is Israel winning?

Israeli state of the art tanks no match for Hizbollah's anti-tank missiles

Sorry for the source but there is a delicious undertone of sour grapes in this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/15/wmid15.xml

Abandoned Hizbollah positions in Lebanon yesterday revealed conclusive evidence that Syria - and almost certainly Iran - provided the anti-tank missiles that have blunted the power of Israel's once invincible armour.

[...] Beyond no-man's land, in the east of the village, was evidence of Syrian-supplied hardware. In a garden next to a junction used as an outpost by Hizbollah lay eight Kornet anti-tank rockets, described by Brig Mickey Edelstein, the commander of the Nahal troops who took Ghandouriyeh, as "some of the best in the world".

Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia."

Brig Edelstein said: "If they tell you that Syria knew nothing about this, just look. This is the evidence. Proof, not just talk."

The discovery of the origin of the weapons proved to the Israelis that their enemy was not a ragged and lightly armed militia but a semi-professional army equipped by Syria and Iran to take on Israel. The weapons require serious training to operate and could be beyond the capabilities of some supposedly regular armies in the Middle East. The Kornet was unveiled by Russia in 1994. It is laser-guided, has a range of three miles and carries a double warhead capable of penetrating the reactive armour on Israeli Merkava tanks. Russia started supplying them to Syria in 1998.

So what are Bush and co. complaining about? Those were anti-tank weapons used on a battlefield. Nothing wrong with that is there? Especially after the chimp has supplied Israel with hundreds of five-tonne laser guided missiles so the Israelis can flatten entire fucking neighbourhoods.
 
moono said:
MonkeyMagic;


I can see your viewpoint very clearly.

Putting myself in the places of Olmert and Nasrallah ( according to information received, naturally) Olmert has achieved far less than 'fuck all' and Nasrallah appears to have bent and blunted the physical and political point of Zionism itself.

Was that worth fifteen hundred Lebanese dead ? Far, far more have already died in achieving far less. Somebody ought to consult the ranks of the armies of ghosts.

I don't think we're seeing anything new here. Israel and the Muslims have a fight, people die, a country is ruined, mistrust deepends and then we have bit of a lull before the circus comes back to town again and again; no progress, no light at the end of the tunnel.

The only possible victory is a PR one. Hezbollah have come out smelling marginally better but Israel is crap at fighting PR wars and thinks it can blast its way to victory while Hezbollah uses all kinds of sneakyand underhand tactics to make itself look better. The only people Israel ever manage to have a positive impact with is the imbecilic population of America (a rather large contingent).

I fully expect that we will relive this whole escapade again in similar circumstances in the not too distant future, further increasing my distaste for all parties involved and the mess that they are determined to drag the rest of us into until the end of time.
 
Some more from military pundit William Lind:
Israel appears to have lost at every level—strategic, operational and tactical. Nothing she tried worked. Air power failed, as it always does against an enemy who doesn’t have to maneuver operationally, or even move tactically for the most part. The attempts to blockade Lebanon and thus cut off Hezbollah’s resupply failed; her caches proved ample. Most seriously, the ground assault into Lebanon failed. Israel took little ground and paid heavily in casualties for that. More, she cannot hold what she has taken; if she is not forced to withdraw by diplomacy, Hezbollah will push her out, as it did once before. The alternative is a bleeding ulcer that never heals.

But these failures only begin to measure the magnitude of Israel’s defeat. While Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, is now an Islamic hero, Olmert has become a boiled brisket in the piranha pool that is Israeli politics. The cease-fire in Lebanon will allow camera crews to broadcast the extent of the destruction to the world, with further damage to Israel’s image. Israel’s “wall” strategy for dealing with the Palestinians has been undone; Hamas rockets can fly over a wall as easily as Hezbollah rockets have flown over Israel’s northern border.

Most importantly, an Islamic Fourth Generation entity, Hezbollah, will now point the way throughout the Arab and larger Islamic world to a future in which Israel can be defeated. That will have vast ramifications, and not for Israel alone. Hundreds of millions of Moslems will believe that the same Fourth Generation war that defeated hated Israel can beat equally-hated America, its “coalitions” and its allied Arab and Moslem regimes. Future events seem more likely to confirm that belief than to undermine it.

The cease-fire in Lebanon will last only briefly, its life probably measured in days if not in hours. Neither Israel nor Hezbollah has genuinely accepted it. The notion that the Lebanese Army and a rag-tag U.N. force will disarm Hezbollah is absurd even by the usual low standard of diplomatic fictions. The bombing and the rocketing may stop briefly, but Israel has already announced a campaign of assassination against Hezbollah leaders, while every Israeli soldier in Lebanon will remain a target of Hezbollah.

Unfortunately for states generally, Israel appears to have no good options when hostilities recommence. It can continue to grind forward on the ground in southern Lebanon, paying bitterly for each foot of ground, and perhaps eventually denying Hezbollah some of its rocket-launching sites. But it cannot hold what it takes. It may strive for a more robust U.N. force, but what country wants to fight Hezbollah? Any occupier of southern Lebanon that is not there with Hezbollah’s permission will face the same guerrilla war Israel already fought and lost. Most probably, Israel will escalate by taking the war to Syria or Iran, and what will be a strategy of desperation. That too will fail, after it plunges the whole region into a war the outcome of which will be catastrophic for the United States as well as for Israel.
source
 
MM;
I fully expect that we will relive this whole escapade again in similar circumstances in the not too distant future, further increasing my distaste for all parties involved and the mess that they are determined to drag the rest of us into until the end of time.

Cheer up, old chap. One large and democratic State ought to see an end to it. Too bad about ' Jewish exclusivity ' but hey, there's a jewish minority everywhere else.


Bernie, Lind seems to have a strong grasp of it. I almost want to jump up and share his optimism. Lol.
 
Well, Lind is a far-right nutcase, but he demonstrably knows his stuff, and he is extremely criticial of the competence of the clowns currently running things in the US.
 
Well, that makes him a good American. Should outnumber the other lot by 2008. I keep suggesting to look amongst the 23 Senators who voted against invading Iraq for the next President, McCain and Clinton having already soiled their Middle East copybooks big style. Feingold looks likes a runner.

A Jewish President offering a square deal for Palestine could be just the ticket.
 
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