So Ethical Meat is in the media again.

[madzone]

MrFlafel, I understand that you are a vegan.

Before you start: Please do not preach. nothing puts me more off veganism than a preachy vegan (of which I have many freinds: they by preachng to me have single handley convinced me that veganism is bollocks). I'm sure that paragraph came straight from VIVA or some other Linda McCartney endorsed shite.

I think any kind of extremism is a BAD thing. This includes dietary fascism. (ETA: and mindless intensive farming)

Moderation and education is the key, there is nothing wrong with eating meat. It is my opionion that it is better to eat great sourced quality stuff and support the best farmers then to shun the whole indstry all together making these good intentioned farmers bankrupted and letting evil companies like tesco take over the whole farming industry.

People will always eat meat because they always have and it tastes nice and is a good source of various nutrients (not intrested in the fact that you can get them elsewhere - a good source is a good source).

UK people need to prove that there is a DEMAND for ethically produced meat and SUPPORT thier ethical farmers. This change will only come through education and understanding - not sneering and moralising.

Actually, I think MrF has a point. Free range isn't always as ethical as people assume

 

[editor]

Blimey. According t'radio, supermarkets pay just 3p for each chicken!

 

[aqua]

3p?

 

[zenie]

http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/animals.html

Thanks beeboo////

To Mr Falafel - that WILL be bias though won't it? (plenty of people will shout that down, so it's a bit superfluous to the argument IYKWIM??)

Free range isn't always as ethical as people assume

Hence my point, what is the difference between supermarket free range and Market free-range?

Blimey. According t'radio, supermarkets pay just 3p for each chicken!

Oh my!

 

[editor]

It's just good business, surely? You don't want your chickens getting ill from dirty equipment, or pecking each other death because they're not subjected to the right amount of daylight. A dead chicken has no value - it's just managing your commodity.

I guess it's not of such concern when each 'unit' has so little value, I guess.

 

[madzone]

Hence my point, what is the difference between supermarket free range and Market free-range?

That's going to depend on individual farms. People will intepret the legislation acording to their own moral code. Mass prodction will probably apply the regs at one end of the scale whereas soemone whose primary concern is animal welfare will apply them at the other iyswim

 

[northernhord]

Jamie Oliver also has a prog about the shite treatment of chickens coming on the box soon, he fell out with Sainsbury's his paymasters over the their limited input in his programme.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Actually, I think MrF has a point. Free range isn't always as ethical as people assume

I know, but it could be said in a better way, rather than taking the worst example dramatised for effect from a vested intrest site and not really giving much of an opinion about it.

Free range isn't the chickens running around in a field that the packaging would have you believe. And It's important that people know this which is why HFW is doing an excellent thing.

 

[zenie]

Jamie Oliver also has a prog about the shite treatment of chickens coming on the box soon, he fell out with Sainsbury's his paymasters over the their limited input in his programme.

I think HFG, Oliver and Ramsey are doing a whole series of them.

 

[northernhord]

I think HFG, Oliver and Ramsey are doing a whole series of them.

Good on them i say

 

[madzone]

I know, but it could be said in a better way, rather than taking the worst example dramatised for effect from a vested intrest site and not really giving much of an opinion about it.

Free range isn't the chickens running around in a field that the packaging would have you believe. And It's important that people know this which is why HFW is doing an excellent thing.

Agreed - as long as he's not prevented in some way from giving an accurate portrayal

 

[Orang Utan]

I think HFG, Oliver and Ramsey are doing a whole series of them.

Aye
http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/the-big-food-fight/the-big-food-fight.html

 

[beeboo]

I guess it's not of such concern when each 'unit' has so little value, I guess.

Individually - no. Hence killing the lame chicks - it's not "putting it out of it's misery", it is not wasting resources (feed etc) on a bird that isn't going to be sold. But overall it matters to them as a commodity - you don't want to start losing large % to ill health etc.

In this experiment, he is on TV and isn't responsible for making a profit, so buying new feeding equipment etc isn't such an economic decision, so he's going to follow the rule book to the letter on both sides.

 

[beeboo]

That 3p thing MUST be wrong, surely? If they were 3p they'd sell them for pennies not pounds?

 

[madzone]

That 3p thing MUST be wrong, surely? If they were 3p they'd sell them for pennies not pounds?

Why would they?

 

[zenie]

That 3p thing MUST be wrong, surely? If they were 3p they'd sell them for pennies not pounds?

This is the supermarkets here.....

 

[fredfelt]

Jamie Oliver also has a prog about the shite treatment of chickens coming on the box soon, he fell out with Sainsbury's his paymasters over the their limited input in his programme.

The best thing for the Jamie Oliver brand would be to loose his association with Sainsburys. He's in a very strong position to make a difference.

I guess we should either expcet a fall out, or Mr Oliver moving to be the ethical voice of Sainsburys.

 

[northernhord]

That 3p thing MUST be wrong, surely? If they were 3p they'd sell them for pennies not pounds?

You are dealing with greedy preditory cunts here

 

[beeboo]

Why would they?

Because it's a comparison product that gets people into the stores - special offers on what is perceived as "staples" like chicken bring in the punters, so they sell them as cheap as possible.

I don't know retail economics but surely there is no way they would need to apply that kind of mark-up on a product which costs 3p, even accounting for all the other overhead costs.

 

[northernhord]

The best thing for the Jamie Oliver brand would be to loose his association with Sainsburys. He's in a very strong position to make a difference.

I guess we should either expcet a fall out, or Mr Oliver moving to be the ethical voice of Sainsburys.

I dont think we'll see much of Jamie in their ads this year because he spoken up

 

[madzone]

Because it's a comparison product that gets people into the stores - special offers on what is perceived as "staples" like chicken bring in the punters, so they sell them as cheap as possible.

I don't know retail economics but surely there is no way they would need to apply that kind of mark-up on a product which costs 3p, even accounting for all the other overhead costs.

What would you assume their mark up to be?

 

[MrFalafel]

Thanks beeboo////

To Mr Falafel - that WILL be bias though won't it? (plenty of people will shout that down, so it's a bit superfluous to the argument IYKWIM??)


!

Its no more biased than what Jamie Oliver and Sainsbury's tell you.

I just wanted to point out that 'free range' or organic is not 'happy meat' at all. Its just not quite as cruel as caged farms.

 

[beeboo]

What would you assume their mark up to be?

Off the top of my head I'd have said 200% - 300%

I can't find figures for chicken but lets take milk as an example. Quick googling suggests farmers get paid about 18p a litre and consumers pay about 50p a litre. Which about 275%.

And this is milk which has been embroiled in various price fixing scandals recently (buying it ridiculously cheap and selling at artificially inflated prices).

3p a chicken doesn't make sense.

 

[MrFalafel]

MrFlafel, I understand that you are a vegan.

Before you start: Please do not preach. nothing puts me more off veganism than a preachy vegan (of which I have many freinds: they by preachng to me have single handley convinced me that veganism is bollocks). I'm sure that paragraph came straight from VIVA or some other Linda McCartney endorsed shite.

I think any kind of extremism is a BAD thing. This includes dietary fascism. (ETA: and mindless intensive farming)

Moderation and education is the key, there is nothing wrong with eating meat. It is my opionion that it is better to eat great sourced quality stuff and support the best farmers then to shun the whole indstry all together making these good intentioned farmers bankrupted and letting evil companies like tesco take over the whole farming industry.

People will always eat meat because they always have and it tastes nice and is a good source of various nutrients (not intrested in the fact that you can get them elsewhere - a good source is a good source).

UK people need to prove that there is a DEMAND for ethically produced meat and SUPPORT thier ethical farmers. This change will only come through education and understanding - not sneering and moralising.

That's all fine and dandy but there are many, many people who think dairy cows lead happy lives wandering in green fields before being gently milked by kindly old farmers. Just as there are people who think organic and free range means happy chickens clucking around a 1950s era farmyard before being quickly despatched in the most humane way possible.

People who are making food choices based on animal cruelty are being duped into thinking free range and organic is cruelty-free, which is wrong.

 

[madzone]

Off the top of my head I'd have said 200% - 300%

I can't find figures for chicken but lets take milk as an example. Quick googling suggests farmers get paid about 18p a litre and consumers pay about 50p a litre. Which about 275%.

And this is milk which has been embroiled in various price fixing scandals recently (buying it ridiculously cheap and selling at artificially inflated prices).

3p a chicken doesn't make sense.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/08/nfood108.xml

We'll find out on Friday

There's an article on Radio 2 right now

 

[beeboo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/08/nfood108.xml

We'll find out on Friday

There's an article on Radio 2 right now

Be interesting to know what the AVERAGE price of a factory-farmed chicken is - I just can't believe it is anywhere near 3p.

Maybe it's 3p for a skinny, scabby, 1 legged bird or something

 

[Orang Utan]

Be interesting to know what the AVERAGE price of a factory-farmed chicken is - I just can't believe it is anywhere near 3p.

Maybe it's 3p for a skinny, scabby, 1 legged bird or something

I think it's entirely believable - hence the state of the batteries

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Price is probably worked out by weight, not per bird.

Although 3p per pound still sounds too low.

 

[beeboo]

I think it's entirely believable - hence the state of the batteries

If 3p is an average price to the farmer for a the kind of bird that Tesco's are shifting for 2 for a fiver, I'll eat my hat.

 

[madzone]

Price is probably worked out by weight, not per bird.

Although 3p per pound still sounds too low.

I've heard it before and it was 3p per bird