So Ethical Meat is in the media again.

[AnnaKarpik]

...

Fearnley-Whittingstall wants to lift the lid on the poultry industry, his decision to open an 'intensive' chicken farm alongside a 'free range' one shocked me a lot. It's not a decison he'd take likely and seemed to go against everything I've ever seen the guy do.

I just hope he's not doing it for ratings...will be interesting to see the results!

...

HFW wanted to show people how intensively-reared chickens live, believing it would put them off. No-one at all in the industry would let him take a film-crew into their sheds - almost certainly because they agree that consumers would be put off. So he's had to do it himself, presumably reasoning that people who buy a chicken for £2.50 do so because they don't know what kind of life it's had.

Personally I'm thinking that people who care about how animals are treated buy free-range meat if they possibly can, or give it up altogether if that is a decision that they (and their families) can feel comfortable with. Anyone buying a chicken for £2.50 doesn't care about animals, farmers, the environment or much else.

HFW could be in this for the ratings, and to support his brand, but I think the bloke is genuine about keeping living things in decent conditions and will dislike himself more and more as the chickens grow.

 

[editor]

Indeed, the poor should go back to eating porridge made with water as opposed to fripperies like cornflakes and milk.

They simply shouldn't be able to afford luxury foods like chicken eggs and milk.

Any chance of you growing up anytime soon?

Obesity is the one of the biggest challenges facing Britain's health right now, not starvation.

 

[chymaera]

I think everyone should watch it - it shows how fragile the rural economy is and the people are not all farmers like Boggis, Bunce and Bean

Could you mention the program over in General and the TV forum. If I do it it will descend into the usual very nasty personal attacks.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

For veal to be in demand again, IIRC

Veal is lovely. People should eat more of it, cos I'd rather eat dead calf and eat cheese than eat cheese and leave a dead calf rotting in a field somewhere (IYSWIM).


The thing is I would very happily buy expensive meat that is well reared, a miserable chicken tastes a bit,well, miserable to be quite honest.

I will never understand those that buy 2 chickens for £5 at tesco - there is something desperatley wrong with that.

The thing is ethically produced meat is still too hard to come by.

I wouldn't mind eating less, good quality, happy meat.

 

[chymaera]

Veal is lovely.

Personally I think it is totally tasteless.

 

[aqua]

You crave factory-farmed chicken reared in horrendous conditions?

No I didn't say that but thanks for the assumption

I don't buy cheap meat, I'm a free range/organic meat buyer thanks (and just for reference, I only buy British organic milk and same with eggs)

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Personally I think it is totally tasteless.

Each to each I suppose,


Veal could be an good source of protien, cheap. If more people ate veal, IT may give the poor cramped chickens a rest if you shitft a bit of demand.

Either way, I find veal takes on flavours around it making it excellent for a mustroon stew or if you stuff it with gherkins.

Anyway, Yay to free range organic happy meat!

 

[madzone]

Indeed, the poor should go back to eating porridge made with water as opposed to fripperies like cornflakes and milk.

They simply shouldn't be able to afford luxury foods like chicken eggs and milk.

Emotive, hysterical bollocks.

 

[zenie]

HFW wanted to show people how intensively-reared chickens live, believing it would put them off. No-one at all in the industry would let him take a film-crew into their sheds - almost certainly because they agree that consumers would be put off. So he's had to do it himself, presumably reasoning that people who buy a chicken for £2.50 do so because they don't know what kind of life it's had.

Yer I understand that it's a tough thing to swallow though init?

HFW could be in this for the ratings, and to support his brand, but I think the bloke is genuine about keeping living things in decent conditions and will dislike himself more and more as the chickens grow.

When he said at the end of last night's 'I don't want to kill another chicken' and was genuinely upset, I cried

I skate on thin ice with my 'choice' as a meat eater, this programme might just send me over the edge....

I love his work and what he believes in, he's a great guy from what I've seen on TV...I just don't know if this programme will make a difference to the consumer as Madzone said earlier.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Emotive, hysterical bollocks.

Thing is people eat what they can afford. Hence ASDA.


Doesn't make it right tho.


Same problem with the poor buying massive plasma tellys on higher purchase.


I mean what the fuck! I can't afford one of those, and I don't see how others on a lesser salary can't (and I don't earn alot).


I've always been taught that if you can't afford it - don't buy it. Ties into alot this "must have now" culture. From ethical meat to high house prices at 8x slaray to credit crunch to short termism in politics.


Shame.

 

[madzone]

I wouldn't mind eating less, good quality, happy meat.

There's the key to the whole issue IMO. People expect to eat meat every day. A bloke in the programme sat down and ate a whole chicken to himself - he called it 'eating well'.

 

[madzone]

Yer I understand that it's a tough thing to swallow though init?



When he said at the end of last night's 'I don't want to kill another chicken' and was genuinely upset, I cried

I skate on thin ice with my 'choice' as a meat eater, this programme might just send me over the edge....

I love his work and what he believes in, he's a great guy from what I've seen on TV...I just don't know if this programme will make a difference to the consumer as Madzone said earlier.

I thought it was interesting that the stockman was threatened with never working in the industry again if he showed intensive farming in a bad light. Very sinister.

 

[zenie]

I thought it was interesting that the stockman was threatened with never working in the industry again if he showed intensive farming in a bad light. Very sinister.

God totally ey? :\ Glad he refused to back down though!!

He knew his stuff didn't he, I was really impressed!

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

There's the key to the whole issue IMO. People expect to eat meat every day. A bloke in the programme sat down and ate a whole chicken to himself - he called it 'eating well'.

Yes that, plus the fact that pre packaged meat from supremarket comes in packs of "4 chicken breasts", "8 chicken breasts", "16 chicken thighs".

I live with my boyfreind, and whilst that kind of scale is fine for a family (or possibly even too much) it's definatley too much meat for 2 people. so either you freeze it in bags (wich compromises the quality), or it goes rotten adn you throw it away (which is no use to anyone).

It's part of the reason I like going to the butcher. I only ever have to buy the amount I need and want, not the amount thrust upon me by cheap deals.

Also has something to do with the obesity crisis I think.

 

[madzone]

Thing is people eat what they can afford. Hence ASDA.

No, they don't - they eat what they think they can afford. Trolleys piled high with biscuits, crisps and other processed shite. I know it's hard for people to think they can afford to eat well but that's because a lot of the time we're conned into thinking we need all the excess shite. When I was on the dole with 2 young kids we ate fantastically well. Better than now in fact because I simply couldn't afford all the shit like processed food. Right now I'm utterly skint and the first thing to go out the window was biscuits and all those little extras we take for granted as daily fare these days.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It's not a decison he'd take likely

lightly...

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

No, they don't - they eat what they think they can afford. Trolleys piled high with biscuits, crisps and other processed shite. I know it's hard for people to think they can afford to eat well but that's because a lot of the time we're conned into thinking we need all the excess shite. When I was on the dole with 2 young kids we ate fantastically well. Better than now in fact because I simply couldn't afford all the shit like processed food. Right now I'm utterly skint and the first thing to go out the window was biscuits and all those little extras we take for granted as daily fare these days.

That was kind of my point

They can't afford that kind of shite. But somehow that's all they eat (not all poor obviously, but certain starins of thinking do anyway), I find it very strange and a bit thick. I simply don't understand WHY someone would want to eat 32 bags of crisps when you can swap stuff. A bag of flour goes REALLY far, and so does a bag of potatoes.

And offal too, I love offal. Liver is so good for you. You can pick up carcasses and bones at butchers and make soup and it's all so cheap and healthy and ethical.

It's somethign I don't ever think I will get my head round.

 

[madzone]

That was kind of my point

So we agree

*claps hands*

 

[aqua]

I thought it was interesting that the stockman was threatened with never working in the industry again if he showed intensive farming in a bad light. Very sinister.

Yeah, I was actually quite worried about him last night. Good on him for appearing on the show though.

 

[madzone]

Yeah, I was actually quite worried about him last night. Good on him for appearing on the show though.

I wondered if it made him change his behaviour though - he was at great pains to make sure everything was spotlessly clean etc. When you read stories about piglets lying dead in farrowing crates covered in maggots (on a farm used for Tesco Finest products btw) you kind of wonder if it's an accurate portrayal of what actually goes on.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't buy cheap meat, I'm a free range/organic meat buyer thanks (and just for reference, I only buy British organic milk and same with eggs)

Me too, which means I now eat meat as a main part of the dish about twice a month now, though I do still use bacon of some kind around once a week

 

[MrFalafel]

Happy meat?

Typically, free-range hens are debeaked at the hatchery, have only 1 to 2 square feet of floor space per bird, and -- if the hens can go outside -- must compete with many other hens for access to a small exit from the shed, leading to a muddy strip saturated with droppings. Although chickens can live up to 12 years, free-range hens are hauled to slaughter after a year or two, or . Free-range male chicks are trashed at birth, just as they are in factory farms. Although free-range conditions may be an improvement over factory-farm conditions, they are by no means free of suffering.

 

[aqua]

In my idealistic optimistic world I'd like to think maybe his farm was one of the better ones and although separated from what he's doing (ie no emotion about the animals), he did want to do it well

if that makes sense

 

[zenie]

Happy meat?

Can you tell me where that quotes from please?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

MrFlafel, I understand that you are a vegan.

Before you start: Please do not preach. nothing puts me more off veganism than a preachy vegan (of which I have many freinds: they by preachng to me have single handley convinced me that veganism is bollocks). I'm sure that paragraph came straight from VIVA or some other Linda McCartney endorsed shite.

I think any kind of extremism is a BAD thing. This includes dietary fascism. (ETA: and mindless intensive farming)

Moderation and education is the key, there is nothing wrong with eating meat. It is my opionion that it is better to eat great sourced quality stuff and support the best farmers then to shun the whole indstry all together making these good intentioned farmers bankrupted and letting evil companies like tesco take over the whole farming industry.

People will always eat meat because they always have and it tastes nice and is a good source of various nutrients (not intrested in the fact that you can get them elsewhere - a good source is a good source).

UK people need to prove that there is a DEMAND for ethically produced meat and SUPPORT thier ethical farmers. This change will only come through education and understanding - not sneering and moralising.

 

[fredfelt]

My ex's father is a dairy farmer in Lancashire and he blames government policy which allows milk prices to be forced down. He currently earns less than his employees. A lot of his friends have sold up and apparently its big companies who're buying up the land.

Regards the issue of subsidy, i think that has more to do with international trade; making our agricultural products cheaper through offsetting the real cost of production. This prevents unwanted foreign competition and also allows us to 'dump' excess supply on poorer countries which effectively bankrupts local farmers who cannot compete with foreign heavily subsidiesed mass produced food. Their land is often bought up by large companies when the farmers are forced to sell from the pressures of mounting debt.

They then end up in urban cities working in sweatshops for nike et al. Its a great way to create a cheap desperate workforce

Thats interesting. So we continue to subsidise - meaning we need to place regulations on farmers, alternatively completly change the CAP and let farmers get on with their own business.

This seems to be what the new DEFRA regulations are about. Let them get on with 'free market' farming, but give farmers support to matain the land.

This seems to make sence but after seeing the programe it is clearly not working.

 

[chymaera]

HFW could be in this for the ratings, and to support his brand, but I think the bloke is genuine about keeping living things in decent conditions and will dislike himself more and more as the chickens grow.

Not all farmers can supplement their income, (which must now be in the £millions) by appearing on TV, writing books and charging people a shedload of money for their products and "hippy" foodie residential courses.

 

[beeboo]

In my idealistic optimistic world I'd like to think maybe his farm was one of the better ones and although separated from what he's doing (ie no emotion about the animals), he did want to do it well

if that makes sense

It's just good business, surely? You don't want your chickens getting ill from dirty equipment, or pecking each other death because they're not subjected to the right amount of daylight. A dead chicken has no value - it's just managing your commodity.

 

[beeboo]

Can you tell me where that quotes from please?

http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/animals.html

However, it does relate to my earlier point that I think it is quite easy to believe that "standard" = bad and "free-range" = good and that's it. Free-range still seems to be about shoving thousands of chickens in a shed.

As I said I'll be interested to see how the differences in approach reveal themselves over the course of the programmes. At the moment, when both approaches are in the hands of what appears to be a scrupulous and dedicated storeman and HFW, it's not yet apparant how much polarity there is between the two approaches when they're conducted on an "industrial" scale.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

It's just good business, surely? You don't want your chickens getting ill from dirty equipment, or pecking each other death because they're not subjected to the right amount of daylight. A dead chicken has no value - it's just managing your commodity.

I think the difference between him and a bog standard farmer is that before he started he already felt an obligation to treat the animals well.

You could tell he wasn't angry about it because it would loose him money, but because he genuinley cared for the welfare of the animals - from an emotional perspective rather that a cold buisness head.