So anyway ....which team is the best in the world?
- Thread starter zed
- Start date
g force said:
I am absolutely not towing the UK press line. This is my own opinion that I've come at having watched as much Spanish football as I could in the UK over the last four years.
From my perspective it seems as if racism just isn't really an issue over in the Spanish league, maybe in Spain in general too (but I probably don't know enough about Spain to comment on that). That's not to say that everyone is racist or that racist chanting is commonplace at some clubs. What I'm saying is that the racism issue doesn't seem to really be given much importance.
On top of that it seems as if in the last year, particularly since the Henry-Aragones incident, Spanish football has taken great offence at other countries poking their noses in their affairs.
Their absolutely ludicrous response seems to have been to actually chant louder and more often, particularly against people, countries or clubs that might have criticised them.
The tipping point for me was when England played Spain at the Bernabeu. What the fuck was that all about? It seems to have slid off people's radar.
Going back to your mitigating points. Firstly, you are arguing that the Spanish FA have threatened to do something about it in the future. This is clearly an absurd position. Why do they need to wait when the problem's already there. Either they're playing for time or, more likely, they just don't give a shit.
Secondly you argue that the Spanish press have started to pay attention. Doesn't the contrast between the past and the present in terms of press coverage (insofaras it is remarkable that racism makes the front pages of sports newspapers) show how backward Spanish football is on this matter. And furthermore how much of this coverage is because the pichichi is getting abused rather than some mid-table side's black players? Is the attention really motivated by Eto'o, the name, or the race issue in general?
Thirdly you say that you heard racist chanting at Stamford Bridge. I'm prepared to take your word for it, but are you sure it wasn't xenophobic chanting? There's a big difference.
But beyond that just because other people do it doesn't make it right.
England hasn't gotten in perfect by any stretch. Do you remember the Dwight Yorke incident when I think he was playing for Birmingham a couple of seasons back?
He started warming up to come on and two people in the crowd started giving him the monkey chant. Now looking at that incident encapsulates the massive difference between England and Spain. Those two men were immediatly recognised, discussed on MOTD, banned for life from the ground and served up with a hefty criminal fine that individually was more or less 50% of what Zaragoza was served with.
From my perspective it isn't that Spanish football is virulently racist, it's just that no-one really seems to care about racism and racists, and in some ways that is worse.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
^
All that is pretty much spot on, IMO.
All that is pretty much spot on, IMO.
The Pious Pawn
I Can
Imho diamond the whole england team should have walked its the only way some action might be taken . Uefa/fifa dont give a fuck other whys they would have acted , that was a friendly game a perfect chance to stick one finger up at spain .
Pawn said:
Sadly that wouldn't work (currently) as oppo fans would know, say if their team were 2-0 down, all they had to do was abuse Ashley Cole for a bit and the team would walk. And knowing FIFA they would say "this is not the way to go about things" and award the points to the oppo
. Stricter legislation needs to be brought in, FIFA officials at every international ready to call games off and award points to racially abused teams, watch them shut the fuck up.Diamond said:
you're not towing the uk press line but all your information comes from the uk press? this inevitably means that you are going to be biased to what the uk press says. how much of the spanish football and normal press do you read? These have really changed their attitude in the last year, yes it's behind England, but they are beginning to change and demand tougher restrictions.
Birmingham was mentioned for kicking out 2 fans for racist chanting, Espanyiol did the same thing last season. Taking the socios of two members of them for racist abuse.
Sadly eto'o is singled out for a lot more abuse than other black players. Last year against zaragoza he tried to ilustrate the absurdity of it by showing that alvaro and ewerthon were also black. he failed.
what is the difference between xenophobic and racist chanting, surely they have the same roots in a mistrust of foreigners, or people who are different. I don't see how that xenophobic chanting can be more justifiable than racist chanting. care to explain?
tommers said:what have england got to do with it?
argentina narrowly beat ivory coast, they narrowly beat mexico, they drew with holland and they lost to germany.
hardly imperious is it?
and you can stick your caps lock up your patronising unfunny bell end.
who do you support zed? I feel like having some petty prejudices reinforced.
Because one dimensional England supporters have a tendency to not understand good football more than most. They tend not to get concepts like passing, finishing and doing the basics well under extreme pressure ...like hitting the target from the penalty spot.
No Argentina were hardly imperious but were a damn site more impressive than any other team IMO.
The team I support is the one that plays the best football (or the best that they are capable of ...whichever is the highest). If that ever happens to be England, even better.
But based on watching them the past 30 years, I'm not holding my breath ...winning friendlies in Geneva notwithstanding.
What petty prejudices do want supported? Let me know and I'll try to accomodate.
Crazy_diamond
New Member
The best team in the world are S.C. Corinthians Paulista.
Everyone knows that don’t they?
Everyone knows that don’t they?
revol68
what, fucking what?
G-Force, there is a big difference between some people slagging off the French, Italians, Germans, Spanish etc. Not that it's not stupid or ignorant or above reproach, but it's not the same as the racist abuse dished out to black players.
The Spanish haven't been systematically portrayed as subhuman in history, been compared to apes, or seen themselves put in chains and shipped half way across the world. They do not get judged just by their skin colour.
The slaggings between european nations is just a quanitive step up from banter between rival cities, Liverpool vs Manchester, it is not the same as racism dished out to black players.
The Spanish haven't been systematically portrayed as subhuman in history, been compared to apes, or seen themselves put in chains and shipped half way across the world. They do not get judged just by their skin colour.
The slaggings between european nations is just a quanitive step up from banter between rival cities, Liverpool vs Manchester, it is not the same as racism dished out to black players.
zed said:
Argentina may have more technically gifted players, but the fact remains that they progressed no further than England in this year's World Cup, and we have beaten them on the last two occasions we've met - admittedly, one was a friendly, but you can't say that game didn't matter to both sets of players.
The Pious Pawn
I Can
Flashman said:Sadly that wouldn't work (currently) as oppo fans would know, say if their team were 2-0 down, all they had to do was abuse Ashley Cole for a bit and the team would walk. And knowing FIFA they would say "this is not the way to go about things" and award the points to the oppo
Thats why a friendly game could highlight the problem imho , nothing to lose as such .
revol68 said:
I wasn't attempting to prove anything. Just pointing out that Argentina, even if they are considered to be a "better" team than England, have still lost the last two games between the two sides, and were knocked out of the World Cup at the same stage.
You're correct, Northern Ireland did beat England. England woudl probably be considered the better side, but they weren't. Not that night at least. Still, we qualified and they didn't. Are Argentina a better side than England? Maybe. But their recent record against us isn't that good, and it's results that count, right?
revol68 said:
You lot really have to stop this 'youse' and 'yous' business, it's fucking annoying
Argentina have in fact only won two games, ever, against England, and one of those was on penalties. The other took a handball to win the game.
RenegadeDog said:
All of which means that Argentina consistently produce weaker national football teams than England, right? And that if it wasn't for that handball goal in '86, England would have given Argentina another beating? Or won any ensuing penalty shoot-out?
What colour is the sky in your world?
lol
zed said:
I didn't insinuate anything of the sort. Just pointed out that Argentina are actually not one of England's real bogey teams. Sweden have given us far more trouble over the years...
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
The last one took a dive by Owen.RenegadeDog said:
