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SmugMug Buys Flickr

RoyReed

Must fly!
i'm too caned to make sense presently :oops: does it have any implications re rights?
Not now, and they'd have to notify you if they were going to make any changes, but SmugMugs terms are OK re your photo rights. If you're worried you can read up here:

SmugMug Terms and Conditions
What Does SmugMug's TOS Mean In "Regular Speak"?

SmugMug doesn't claim any copyright or any other ownership rights to your photos, videos and other media.

When you upload your photos and videos to our website, you are giving SmugMug certain rights to use your content to provide you with our services, like the ability to display, license, and sell your content for you at your direction.
 

mhendo

Aussie in Connecticut
I've been a SmugMug member for four or five years now, and I really like the site. I hope this purchase doesn't change things too much.
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
I don’t think a lot will change, at least not in the short term. Imagine the migration task to try to merge the two services, and how clunky the Flickr codebase probably is by now after years of neglect.

I could see shared sign-ons (they’ve already mentioned moving away from needing a Yahoo account, obviously) and some added tools. Not knowing SmugMug I don’t know which would be appropriate but if I was engineering it I’d look at things that could be relatively easily transplanted, taking the opportunity to develop a shared library.
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
Just had a quick skim through their new privacy policy. Everything down to the size of your under crackers! :eek:

Flickr's Privacy Policy
I think that’s just Flickr’s old privacy policy at a new URL. It still has references to Flickr.com urls and they say it’s not the same as SmugMug’s.

Note that it’s not GDPR compliant. Verizon (as Oath, their web property holding company) have basically said “fuck you EU sue us” with updated privacy policies recently, which is an interesting choice given that the EU has indeed been pretty willing to sue US tech companies.
 

Crispy

The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Most importantly, the 1,000 limit will be applied retroactively. You've got till Feb 5th to delete photos or they'll do it for you, oldest first. This is going to make a real mess.
 

StoneRoad

heckling from the back!
All that "free" storage must be costing a real packet to service.
Which will be why the chopper is coming down.

Ipernity have decided that they also need to save server / storage costs by deleting abandoned accounts and "hidden" data. The savings are quite a lot of money, which it is planned are then going to be spent on improvements to the site.

Ipernity's "Club" membership is quite economical, especially as it is a community owned association, not a commercial operation ...
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
They are pretty clear about their reasons in their blog post - Why we’re changing Flickr free accounts

In 2013, Yahoo lost sight of what makes Flickr truly special and responded to a changing landscape in online photo sharing by giving every Flickr user a staggering terabyte of free storage. This, and numerous related changes to the Flickr product during that time, had strongly negative consequences.

First, and most crucially, the free terabyte largely attracted members who were drawn by the free storage, not by engagement with other lovers of photography. This caused a significant tonal shift in our platform, away from the community interaction and exploration of shared interests that makes Flickr the best shared home for photographers in the world. We know those of you who value a vibrant community didn’t like this shift, and with this change we’re re-committing Flickr to focus on fostering this interaction.

Second, you can tell a lot about a product by how it makes money. Giving away vast amounts of storage creates data that can be sold to advertisers, with the inevitable result being that advertisers’ interests are prioritized over yours. Reducing the free storage offering ensures that we run Flickr on subscriptions, which guarantees that our focus is always on how to make your experience better. SmugMug, the photography company that recently acquired Flickr from Yahoo, has long had a saying that resonates deeply with the Flickr team and the way we believe we can best serve your needs: “You are not our product. You are our priority.” We want to build features and experiences that delight you, not our advertisers; ensuring that our members are also our customers makes this possible.

Third, making storage free had the unfortunate effect of signaling to an entire generation of Flickr members that storage—and even Flickr itself—isn’t worth paying for. Nothing could be further from the truth: there is no place like Flickr to share, to discover, to learn, and to interact around photography. And because storing tens of billions of Flickr members’ photos is staggeringly expensive, we need our most-active members to help us continue investing in Flickr’s stability, growth, and innovation.
I agree with that, although it’s a bummer if you have lots of photos in it of course and don’t want to pay, and I’ve heard net archivist types saying it’s going to be a bit disastrous to suddenly and almost randomly lose a lot of images on the net.
 

RoyReed

Must fly!
There's a row brewing over photos hosted on Flickr that have been granted a CC license. Museums were invited a few years ago to host their CC images there and now these will fall foul of the new decision. Apparently SmugMug are in talks with Creative Commons to see if they can find a resolution - possibly CC licensed images won't count towards the 1,000 total.
 

craigxcraig

Prefers 'cxc'
I've not used flickr in years, though have several thousand phots there.

Is there an easy way to take all of your photos back and off the site?
 

girasol

Ubuntu
I'm a pro user with 33,035 Photos! 1000 photos limit? Madness! Especially for people who have been using it for years and years. Hopefully this will be covered in my plan *goes to check*

edit: ah, ok :) "Pro users now have access to unlimited video and photo storage once again" but going up to $50/year
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
The problem here is that, given the state that Yahoo have left Flickr in, it may be hard to sell pro accounts at $50 a year. My own engagement has gone down to almost nothing apart from checking the discussion boards on a couple of groups, and I'm not the only one. Once users stop engaging it becomes a vicious circle on a social platform.

I think if they add non-network-dependent features like nice gallery pages and portfolio stuff that will help bring users back; that will have to be done at the same time as other features to encourage people to interact. Culling free users may help to clean out some of the group pools and make them easier to moderate. I have some hope but it will be a while before it's in a better state.
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
So going into more detail about the benefits of a pro account at the moment.

There are some third party offers: 15% off Adobe CC, $35 off Blurb photo books up to four times a year, discount on some preset bundle, 50% off SmugMug membership (eh? why would you want both?). Personally those are all worthless to me apart from maybe a discount on Blurb books, which would actually be worth nearly three times the cost of a subscription if you used it all four times, which seems quite generous. I guess they know that not many people will take it up. But I don't want any of the rest. In the broader market, CC discount would probably be the biggest seller out of those, even if I don't care personally.

As for the built-in advantages...
  • Advanced stats: I don't care enough to for it to influence my decision, but I can see that it would be worthwhile for some, if there was a good gallery/portfolio system in Flickr, which there isn't right now, or a better community whose attention you actually cared about.
  • Ad-free browsing: I have an ad blocker and I don't care if anyone else sees ads next to my photos.
  • Auto-uploadr: I actively don't want to do this, Flickr is not a photo backup system for me - and in general it goes against their idea of having Flickr as a service for photographers rather than a big digital bucket. But I guess they're hardly going to get rid of it, given that it already exists. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets dropped at some point though.

Unlimited storage too obviously but that's not big a seller to me either - as I mentioned I don't use it as a backup system - and it's not that distinctive in the market. The idea of losing metadata and comments on a few old photos is a slight negative, but tbh, it wouldn't affect my life at all, and doing that if I let my subscription lapse would mean I would then be much less likely to go back to Flickr. And that's basically it.

I'll probably renew it in Feburary ($50 a year still isn't a massive sum and it's a bit early to tell) but if there aren't new features in a year, or a general improvement in the environment that makes it socially much more interesting, it's running the risk of getting the chop when I next go on a subscription culling economy drive.
 

RoyReed

Must fly!
So going into more detail about the benefits of a pro account at the moment.

There are some third party offers: 15% off Adobe CC, $35 off Blurb photo books up to four times a year, discount on some preset bundle, 50% off SmugMug membership (eh? why would you want both?). Personally those are all worthless to me apart from maybe a discount on Blurb books, which would actually be worth nearly three times the cost of a subscription if you used it all four times, which seems quite generous. I guess they know that not many people will take it up. But I don't want any of the rest. In the broader market, CC discount would probably be the biggest seller out of those, even if I don't care personally.

As for the built-in advantages...
  • Advanced stats: I don't care enough to for it to influence my decision, but I can see that it would be worthwhile for some, if there was a good gallery/portfolio system in Flickr, which there isn't right now, or a better community whose attention you actually cared about.
  • Ad-free browsing: I have an ad blocker and I don't care if anyone else sees ads next to my photos.
  • Auto-uploadr: I actively don't want to do this, Flickr is not a photo backup system for me - and in general it goes against their idea of having Flickr as a service for photographers rather than a big digital bucket. But I guess they're hardly going to get rid of it, given that it already exists. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets dropped at some point though.

Unlimited storage too obviously but that's not big a seller to me either - as I mentioned I don't use it as a backup system - and it's not that distinctive in the market. The idea of losing metadata and comments on a few old photos is a slight negative, but tbh, it wouldn't affect my life at all, and doing that if I let my subscription lapse would mean I would then be much less likely to go back to Flickr. And that's basically it.

I'll probably renew it in Feburary ($50 a year still isn't a massive sum and it's a bit early to tell) but if there aren't new features in a year, or a general improvement in the environment that makes it socially much more interesting, it's running the risk of getting the chop when I next go on a subscription culling economy drive.
Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking.
 

Nivag

Well-Known Member
Just checked mine, I've got over 3000 images on there. I've been using it as a photo drop of scanned images my dad and old family photos took and have been slowly going through to get them digitised before they are lost forever.
I'll probably end up paying, as at the moment it's the most convenient place for me to use.
 

neonwilderness

What would Badgers do?
There are some third party offers: 15% off Adobe CC, $35 off Blurb photo books up to four times a year, discount on some preset bundle, 50% off SmugMug membership (eh? why would you want both?).
The CC discount appears to only apply to the full suite which is annoying as I only use the Photography suite (PS and Lightroom).

I've been considering experimenting with SmugMug to make a portfolio site to try and sell some prints, so I'll probably give this a go.
 
hmm.

must try and decide what to do. i did pay for the current 'pro' thing, as this sort of thing free is not sustainable (remember fotopic?) but the idea of the price doubling (and that's in dollars - before thinking about the exchange rate) - meh.

i'd never use something online as even backup, let alone only place i kept something, and (post fotopic) i tend to write the captions / text in a word document and copy-pasta it.

wonder if they would notice if i ended up with two accounts from different e-mail addresses?
 

FridgeMagnet

Administrator
I see they’ve added a few more discounts since the last time I looked - nothing that different, more “keep existing people subscribing” stuff rather than “attract new subscribers”. Fair enough, I wasn’t expecting them to have done anything massive yet, though it would be nice to have some indication of what they are working on if anything.

My opinion hasn’t changed generally. I’m trying to make an effort to put more stuff on Flickr right now but that’s for personal reasons not because it’s any different or I see a bright future ahead so want to get in early somehow (I “got in early” about 15 years ago). In fact I wonder whether I should put in the effort to run my own self hosted gallery stuff instead, which would be nicer and more permanent.
 

weltweit

Well-Known Member
I have been hearing some nasty things about rights and these online sites which is a pain because I wouldn't mind putting some stuff online now.

pbase, flickr, smugmug, 500px, I suppose I need to read up on their terms.
 
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