Sir Kim Darroch resigns as UK ambassador to US

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by editor, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    What do the ambassadors to, say, Russia, or Venezuela, or Brazil, say in private correspondence?

    This reaction is just another example of the supine position the UK adopts in the mythical 'special relationship'. Hell, Trump just comes out with this kind of criticism in public.
  2. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    I dont think it was via a leak exactly, but I recall that the public were treated to the info that Obama privately considered Cameron to be a lightweight.
    mx wcfc likes this.
  3. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    And to what end? Why humour Trump? Macron hasn't. France hasn't been invaded yet.
  4. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Macron did humour him, he gave him a state visit and a parade. That didn't work either.
    kebabking likes this.
  5. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Its possible I should be paying attention to some of the other stuff in the leaks, such as:

  6. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Trumps a special case anyway because he is a nightmare for his own civil service, diplomats etc, and all the traditional allies dont know what to do either. And we never discuss the special relationship properly because so much of it was about the power realities at the end of world war 2, later deals we did to become a US-sponsored nuclear power, and much that happened since.

    We'll inevitably get some sort of discussion about it under certain Brexit scenarios because of the wider implications of any trade deals, but it will be far from a comprehensive look at it and so will be riddled with distractions and utter fallacies.
    kebabking likes this.
  7. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Global Britain PLCs general pomposity and self-importance wont help either. I rarely watch the telly but I caught Laura Kuenssberg claiming on the news the other night that Trumps words about May somehow went well beyond what we are used to from Trump. Bullshit, it was entirely consistent with his prior behaviour and May is a lame duck so he has even less need to pull his punches now.
  8. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Indeed the only thing surprising about Trumps recent attitude to May is that he hasnt found an opportunity to publicly mock her crying at the podium yet.
    LynnDoyleCooper likes this.
  9. not-bono-ever

    not-bono-ever Alles hat ein Ende nur eine Wurst hat zwei

    Both kabbes and elbows are kinda right - yes it is the familiarity speak of the elite amongst themselves but it is how things are done. If you cannot expect utter honesty from your ambassador to the USA for fear of a leak, then things are very very wrong.

    ETA if you are booked in with a meeting with the UKG representatives in some dusty shithole, about say business and corruption on the country, they will be utterly honest about the situation on the ground & the expectation is that that honesty is respected
  10. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    The Urban75 diplomatic service conducts all its communication by PMs. I am therefore unable to divulge what the relevant official thinks of this comment...
  11. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    There is a fun, recent UK leak themed triple dot joining game to be played at the moment.

    Screenshot 2019-06-29 at 20.33.50.png
    Screenshot 2019-07-01 at 18.16.49.png

    edit - I regret not having a date for that latter article, but it was from before this ambassador leak thing happened.
  12. kebabking

    kebabking Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....

    No, but because France has a less smelly relationship with the US it's nuclear weapons programme - the nukes, the missiles, and the submarines - cost about 3 times what the UK's very similar (but more accurate warheads, and quieter submarines) nuclear programme costs.

    France gets a great deal less than the UK of the most sensitive intelligence that the US develops.

    France also simply doesn't get access to a number of US technologies - it therefore either goes without, or has to develop them themselves. The costs of which are astronomical.

    Moral purity carries a price.
    petee and A380 like this.
  13. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    I'm all for honesty in communications. But it is worth considering the information you are honestly conveying. If it's something you can honestly stand by and back up, it's not a problem whatever it is. People get embarrassed, though, when they've said something that isn't really "honest" in the sense of being impartial, evidenced fact. It's just honestly held polemic. But there is no value in such polemic. If that's all you have to offer, and you're going to be embarrassed by its revelation there's no real meat to support it, then just don't say it in any kind of official format.

    On this occasion, the honestly held opinion he was honestly conveying was something born of upper class privilege, public school bluster and contempt of the oiks. He chose to honestly convey this honest opinion and it bit him because it was of no value.
    Bahnhof Strasse likes this.
  14. Smangus

    Smangus comatose at a desk

    Its of great value to Trump though as he will try and leverage this at every opportunity if we try and get some trade deal with him there. Next he'll suggest who should be appointed. Again.
  15. kebabking

    kebabking Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....

    He'd have done that anyway.
  16. editor

    editor hiraethified

  17. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    Is Tommy Robinson available for the gig?
  18. killer b

    killer b Minimum Waste / Maximum Joy

    I don't think he's done or said anything unusual, or that there aren't countless embarrassing, stupid, 'frank' or damaging things done and said by members of the civil service and politicians every day that don't get out: of course there are. I'm just saying that their expectation of privacy rests on much more shaky foundations than they think - which is self evident when you look at the politics of the last 5 years or so. All that needs to happen is for the 'frank' words to end up in the inbox of someone who's ends would be served by it getting out. And so, sometimes, they do.
  19. Dandred

    Dandred Mmmmm Beer!

  20. editor

    editor hiraethified

    The Guardian's take on the matter:

    Kim Darroch: effectively sacked by Johnson on the orders of Trump
  21. petee

    petee i'm spartacus

    just to say as someone who has a degree from fordham, it's not a socially elite school. its natural constituency was working class and lower middle class nyc area cahtolics. trump's money made him at outlier there, which is perhaps (along with the striving) why he moved to penn, which is socially elite (ivy league).

    the second thing you said is of course correct.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    Poi E and Pickman's model like this.
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    I type corrected
  23. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    It's literally his role to be on the ground and to report back. That's the job. It's the government's job to make that line of communication secure.
    TheHoodedClaw, rich! and editor like this.
  24. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Funny. I thought his job was to keep relations good between the nations.
  25. editor

    editor hiraethified

    He doesn't dictate policy, silly.
    greenfield and kebabking like this.
  26. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    After Trump said he would be frozen out I don't think he had any options but to resign.

    I agree that the communications back to base probably needed to be frank, though now that they have proven less than secure perhaps this needs rethinking.

    It would be interesting to know how the communications were leaked, and by whom?
  27. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    They are generally cordial people who 'get on' with whichever countries governments. They still cut through the crap and give straight talking feedback. And sometimes they need to be direct and forthright.

    I'd love to know what other countries ambassadors are saying about the UK these days.
  28. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Bit of both, surely (and sometimes the two are in conflict)
    eatmorecheese likes this.
  29. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    inept is quite likely
  30. Ming

    Ming Massive prawns

    Thing is it does convey an impression. Like if you’re talking to someone you know you don’t just do facts, dates and times. It’s a two way conversation. ‘Well why inept? Specifically?’ might be the reply. And that’s OK but if you’re close and you both know the subject well then probably not necessary.

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