Sir Kim Darroch resigns as UK ambassador to US

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by editor, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Ambassador Elbows report into perceptions of the diplomatic service on u75....

    Fuck me, some of these chumps have no fucking clue how anything actually works.
  2. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    And that would be a(nother) good example of something that would make you feel better to write but actually help nobody that receives it.
    Bahnhof Strasse likes this.
  3. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Interesting piece.
  4. Smokeandsteam

    Smokeandsteam Well-Known Member

    I have to say the outpouring of sympathy and rage at Boris Johnson over the fate of this bumbling toff is hard to understand.I know most of it is the useful pitiful lefty whataboutery but Kabbes is right, in any business or even Government/Public Sector organisation you are told on day one to assume everything you write electronically will be seen by everyone and to ensure your writing if leaked/wrongly addressed/of use later meets the test that you'd be happy to say to the subject of it what you've written.

    As a steward by the way I represent a growing number of members who face gross misconduct charges for forgetting this.
  5. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    The fact that they don't know who leaked it means that the circulation list for the memo must have been large. That in itself makes it imprudent (i.e. dumb) to use undiplomatic language.
    Smokeandsteam likes this.
  6. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    Trump is hardly discrete himself though. 66520958_1278014132377245_1124618877012017152_n.jpg
  7. nogojones

    nogojones Well-Known Member

    Yes, I was n all. but now and again I say fuck it and let the truth slip out
  8. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    I do that face to face.
    kabbes likes this.
  9. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    But there is ample evidence of how the diplomatic service works, and what you describe is a really poor fit for that reality. Always has been, always will be unless we and every other country radically alter its intended function and methods.

    There are all sorts of sensitive roles and jobs out there, including spooks of one sort or another. Some jobs simply require the handling of highly sensitive, controversial information, and that such information be passed on in direct and unambiguous manner. They take a very different appraoch to the picture you describe, which I concede is quite accurate for a range of other roles.
    kebabking likes this.
  10. killer b

    killer b Minimum Waste / Maximum Joy

    I dunno, it looks like you're the one struggling tbh. You know how you'd like it to work, but it demonstrably doesn't actually work.
    kabbes likes this.
  11. Smokeandsteam

    Smokeandsteam Well-Known Member

    And as you both know you take a risk when you do that, especially when the subject of the truth is a twat.

    If you put in writing that one of your bosses most important client is 'inept' and they find out then you can expect gross misconduct charges.
    Bahnhof Strasse likes this.
  12. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    You can't write inept as a descriptor for anyone unless you are comentariat and finely attuned to your paymasters whims.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  13. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    That's not a real photo though.
  14. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    People can do a subject acess request and most large organisations just get their IM to search the servers and hand it over.
  15. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

  16. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    i think we can all agree that theresa may is an inept prime minister
    Ming, A380 and TopCat like this.
  17. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    No, I'm not struggling, because my view is entirely consistent with how the diplomatic service and other related entities actually operate. Leaks are the exception, the day to day assumes secure channels and frank speaking, and I'm honestly truly shocked to find people disagreeing with that here.

    Its entirely consistent with all the government justifications over the years for legislation such as the official secrets act. And justification for secrecy and privacy in power circles in general.

    Its a topic that has always been of interest to me because on many fronts the secrecy and power is abused, for a multitude of reasons including the covering up of incompetence and dubious acts.

    It comes up in particular when we are looking at whether our freedoms are fucked with by intelligence services, and how much genuine oversight of those services there is.

    Its also really fascinating to try to design a new world and consider what it would look like if we removed these 'security'/behind closed doors features. It would be a very different world indeed, one that it is somewhat hard to imagine unless issues of power being concentrated unequally are also addressed at the same time.

    So yeah, I wish I lived in a world where 'behind closed doors' was not a regular feature, but it is, and really this whole Darroch story is proof of that. He wrote nothing unusual, the leak was unusual.
    eatmorecheese and existentialist like this.
  18. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    Is it not? Saw it first time today.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  19. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    I agree with your broad point, but from the reports I've read it appears he's called the administration 'clumsy and inept', not the man.

    We also don't know, unless we've read the leaked emails, the extent to which he may have backed up his opinion with facts and analysis
  20. Bahnhof Strasse

    Bahnhof Strasse A-wob a-bob bob

    Signal 11 likes this.
  21. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy Arsed

    Who's arsed anyway, he's a fucking ambassador, even if it was a grave injustice then still fuck him
    Radiatori and redsquirrel like this.
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    use this genuine one instead

  23. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

  24. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Not if your job was to provide frank impressions of your clients, and you were provided with approved 'secure' channels that you were supposed to deliver just such messages through.

    Perhaps people are confused by the nature of the channels....

    Out there in the broader world, no matter what gloss you might be required to put on messages consigned to print, the world of frank verbal discussions in private still very much exists. Well, consider that some ambassadorial functions are just the equivalent of this, but do not have the luxury of taking place in person, verbally, off the record. There are special records and channels to use instead. Its part of the job, its what they are supposed to do, not something they will be disciplined for. Darroch is collateral damage due to a secure channel failure not of his own making.
    xenon, Ming, kebabking and 1 other person like this.
  25. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    Is he on the roof waiting for the Royal Marine chopper to get him out now?
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    it's taken five minutes from my working day, and for that i'm appropriately grateful
    Proper Tidy likes this.
  27. TopCat

    TopCat Zap it!

    It's one in the gob for the Eton mob.
    Proper Tidy likes this.
  28. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    elbows is bang on the money. The job, in this respect, is to provide a frank, unvarnished assessment back to the home country. I don't know what language you think he should have used, but what he wrote was hardly biting polemic.

    As for the fallacy that humouring Trump would have meant Trump 'had time for him', I don't know what planet you think this would happen on, but it's not gone very well for Theresa May.
  29. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    By the way, I give no shits about Darroch. I just couldnt get my head round this apparent denial that some of the roles states give people involve secure channels which are used in a manner that assumes the security is up to scratch. Regardless of how much people have been trained to tiptoe round everything sensitive in other aspects of their lives, other jobs etc.

    Like I said earlier, a world with no 'behind closed doors' stuff would be fascinating. But I expect that if somehow implemented with the current nations, power structures and status quo, the nuclear age would already have ended with a bang by now. Because it might closer resemble the sort of spats humans are great at having in the open on internet forums and social media, as opposed to whatever our elites actually do behind closed doors under the current status quo. Well I dont really believe that because its just as likely that without closed doors to hide behind, we might have evolved a very different system and structure and sense of rights and priorities, and would be arguably much saner and safer for it.
    existentialist likes this.
  30. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Why use twenty words when one sums it up perfectly.

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