Sin City- Crap/Not Crap
- Thread starter electrogirl
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electrogirl
dignity is overrated
tell me why
It should be fairly obvious.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
but, like much of millers work, theres a leaning towards might is right, violence solves all and women are but whores or victims.
Marv, our hero, we're meant to root for him. He tortures Frodo to death, and we're supposed to swallow that as moraly justified cause frodo was a serial killer.
as I said earlier, it's stylish. Doesn't hold up to much re-watching though.
I totally disagree about the women thing, in fact, I hope she doesn't mind but I'm just gonna cut and paste from a PM I sent electrogirl earlier on where I sort of set out my stall on the issue. It is "stall" and not "stool" isn't it? The latter seemed quite horrible.
The women in that film are strong and deal with the men on a completely equal basis. They are prostitutes but the power is resolutely held with them and where there is no exploitation, just sex then, really, who is to say that selling sex is in any way wrong or disempowering? They're all shit hot with weapons and they come up with a plan that outsmarts a whole bunch of men and the police too.
I don't think they're pure wank fantasy stuff at all - I just think that men can wank over pretty much any woman showing any kind of flesh in any situation whatsoever, we shouldn't define women as a result of that, we should define men as being sex obsessed children.
In addition, there was the lesbian psychologist who was the only person who was able to make a connection and earn the respect of the freak character whose name I forget. She was a strong career woman, obviously very good at her job. The fact that we get to see her tits and she's a lesbian shouldn't detract from that at all or be seen as gratuitous- it's a fucked up fantasy comic world and every character in the film has what you could politely describe as "issues" although, it's got to be said I don't actually consider lesbianism or compulsive breast exposing to be problems at all really.
DC - with Marv, I get what you mean but, again, it's a comic adaptation and in comic world that's what happens. I just don't think it's the kind of film that is supposed to be looked into too deeply, rightly or wrongly. For me, it's just a superbly stylised piece of high adrenaline action with all the great one liners etc that you can expect from that sort of film. Anyone looking to politicise it or what have you - and I'm not saying you have - is probably not watching the right kind of film for their taste. Like, I wouldn't go and watch American Pie, for instance, and then come out saying it was disgustingly sexist and puerile, I'd know exactly what I was gonna get when I walked in - you pays your money, you know?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
It's what happens in Millers comics. The de-humanising of the enemy, and to a certain extent the hero. The sort of brutal ciphers evil and revenge you'd not find in an alan moore work, or to a lesser extent grant morrison. No these writers show all to human enemies and heroes who aren't so clear cut.
That's why for me it was a one watcher.
Augie March
blahem
I think that the criticism that seems to be levelled at Sin City, could also be directed towards a film like Pulp Fiction too. There's no strong female chararcters in that either (the two females in it either need to be rescued or ridiculed for being stupid) and the prevailling attitude in it seems to be that violence can solve problems (case in point is Butch's story, although Jules moral change of heart towards the end, does go some way to remedying this perhaps).
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
true, to a certain extent. They both share the same good quality too, being exaggerations or pastiches of a certain style.
Fair enough, get your point but for me it was an enjoyable watch and I didn't worry too much about the morality of the whole thing. Not saying you're a prissy Rik or anything cos you've never struck me as being like that at all. Until now, obviously, you prissy Rik bitch.
I've seen it twice, I think. Wouldn't fall over myself to watch it again but that's probably due to issues of length rather than anything else - my cock is too long for me to get close enough to the dvd player to put the disc in.
Augie March
blahem
That is true. Deathproof is probably a perfect example of Tarantino's total reversal in attitude towards female characters. Miller hasn't achieved that yet in comic books. But who knows, perhaps his career as a film director could change his stance. After all, his audience would be a much broader church than what he is normally used to.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
nah, no more than Hienleins attitudes put me off reading his Sci Fi books. I just recognise the elements and recurring themes if you will.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Youll be analysing Spiderman 3 for social commentary next.
Sin City is comic book film noir and doesn't pretend to be anything else and why should it. So you guys don't like film noir. Fine. That's not a failing of the film. Film noir is bad guys doing bad gruesome things with anti heroes abound. Sin City delivers this and delivers quite stylishly I think.
Sin City is comic book film noir and doesn't pretend to be anything else and why should it. So you guys don't like film noir. Fine. That's not a failing of the film. Film noir is bad guys doing bad gruesome things with anti heroes abound. Sin City delivers this and delivers quite stylishly I think.
Film noir as a genre is often fantastic, and takes interesting approaches to morality, plays with good guy / bad guy notions etc.
if you think Sin City fulfils noir criteria, you're crazy.
You don't say...
Do we really have to add "in my opinion" after each post, or can we take it on trust that we're all grown-ups and understand the nature of subjectivity?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Hardly film noir. It's an adaptation of Frank Millers portrayal/pastiche of fim noirish STYLE in comic book form. Which isn't so simple as calling it film noir.
You don't say...
Do we really have to add "in my opinion" after each post, or can we take it on trust that we're all grown-ups and understand the nature of subjectivity?
Yes, we really do cos, you know, I've seen you say a lot of people are totally incapable of that and are, generally, stupid, stupid, stupid. Think of them, will you, Jeffles!
electrogirl
dignity is overrated
I think we've established it depends on what you want from a film.
I didn't want Sin City to poke me in the mind. I wanted an entertaining comic book movie, and that's what I got.
In a big sexy funny violent bucketload.
I didn't want Sin City to poke me in the mind. I wanted an entertaining comic book movie, and that's what I got.
In a big sexy funny violent bucketload.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
I know what you mean but I think you missed the point. The comics are supposed to be pulp pap including the portrayal of women (I don't think the portrayal of men is any better). The film follows the comics well with the acting mirroring the noir pulp dialogue. I can understand why you think this is shit but I think it's all jolly good fun.
Having said that I've never been a super huge fan of the books and I am a bit bored with the film now after only a couple of viewings.
I fail to get this. I can't turn my brain off. I may well go and see a dumb action movie (I went to see Wanted last week, for example), but if something doesn't work, I can't trick my brain into pretending it does.
I didn't go and see Sin City expecting great art - I'd read some of the comics (and lots of other Miller stuff) so I knew roughly what I was getting. But beyond the visual appeal (which wears off), what I got I just didn't like at all, for the reasons stated. I can't turn a switch in my head that dumbs me down* enough to enjoy something I otherwise wouldn't.
(*I'm not saying people who like this film are dumb, before some daft twat jumps on me, i'm just saying that my reaction is my reaction, I can't somehow turn it on).
It's not - they're all twisted in some way. I was just really embarrassed for the guy that wrote it.
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