"Simplified Rail Fares" = Complete Mess.
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
trashpony
Hag
I went on the Gatwick express the other day - £16. Nowhere here would it be £3 for a return fare. I can't even go one stop on the tube return for that without an Oyster card!
ethel
Well-Known Member
why did you get the gatwick express though? the normal train takes 10 mins more and is a fraction of the cost. i know that it wouldn't be £3 return but an off peak travelcard including gatwick is only a couple of quid more than an all zones card and certainly not £30.
also, schipol is 9 miles from central amsterdam. gatwick is 29 miles from central london. costs from city airport/heathrow would be more comparable. you can get the tube for a couple of quid from heathrow!
also, why wouldn't you have an oyster card?
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
I had the same problem with a ticket to Warminster (or frome?) that cost something like £40 but a ticket to Westbury was £20 and from there a ticket to warminster is about £3.
Even after the changes I have to look at loads of journeys changing routes etc to find a good price. It can oftern be cheaper (and quicker) to go to a station that is further away and pay for a taxi
teuchter
je suis teuchter
You're quite right that the comparison is not quite a fair one, and there is a little bit of a myth that train fares in this country are loads loads more expensive than other European countries. The reality is that it's not that simple and in any case it's not always easy to make meaningful comparisons when other countries have lower general costs of living/wages etc.
Anyway, although there's always a case to be made for making rail fares in this country generally cheaper (which would require more subsidy, of course), I've been trying to steer this thread away from becoming all about how expensive train travel is.
The point of this thread is more about the way fares are organised and the way in which this information is conveyed to passengers - which is not very effectively (which in turn is partly to blame for the popular perception that train travel is always horrendously expensive).
My main objection is that the government through the rail regulator seems not to be bothered about encouraging the cheapest fares to be available on a walk-up basis - they seem quite happy to let the operators follow the airline model which as previously discussed is quite inappropriate for the railways.
Not only this but they are slapping themselves on the back for carrying out these recent "simplifications" which are in reality nothing of the sort.
Earlier I posted a letter I wrote to my MP; he in turn passed it on to the Dept for Transport who sent back what seems to me like a stock reply to people complaining about "rail travel being expensive". Thus demonstrating that they had not bothered to actually read my letter. I have written back saying as much and I'm currently waiting to see what they come up with next.
Idaho
continuity character
If you are that wedded to the idea that UK rail travel offers value for money then far be it from me to prise you free from that belief.
I just booked a ticket for next monday from Exeter to London return. It is almost £200. That is just astronomical.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
How the hell did you manage that? I'm checking www.nationalrail.co.uk and can only get a price above £60 if you leave on the 0730 or 0745 and come home on the 1723.
EDIT: Ooops, that's in the other direction
Ah, I see now. If you want to arrive in London before 10am, then you get the £90 single fare
ethel
Well-Known Member
yes, peak tickets are astronomical. off peak tickets less so. it's £108 return from waterloo to exeter as a walk up fare, so you must be using the paddington line which is much more expensive.
i went from london to st andrews last weeks for £35 return. i think that's not bad value for money.
if you can stick to fixed trains (or even a saver return), it's not that bad.
Idaho
continuity character
Call me fussy but I prefer a two hour journey to a 4 hour one
Even £106 is far too expensive for what you get: an unreliable and slow service designed with sharehold profits in mind rather than passenger (not customer!) service.
ethel
Well-Known Member
Call me fussy but I prefer a two hour journey to a 4 hour one
Even £106 is far too expensive for what you get: an unreliable and slow service designed with sharehold profits in mind rather than passenger (not customer!) service.
it's an extra half an hour to 40 mins. also you can use a network railcard on that route if you travel after 10!
Paul Russell
Psychogeographer
What's the best website (?) to do that sort of research, btw?
Gromit
International Man of Misery
I use this trick for my Cardiff to London jaunts.
For my next trip i have a standard ticket to Swindon but a first class ticket from Swindon to London. Its saved me booking that way instead of booking Cardiff - London.
I wonder how many trees died to provide the extra tickets used this way.
Also recently i booked a ticket from London to Sheffield and it was £4 cheaper to travel first class than standard class. Whats that about?
I'd like to see an advanced booking system like Easyjet uses. The seats get more expensive as the flight fills up and not based on how close to the departure date you are (allthough obviously as a matter of course you tend to get less seats available closer to departure).
I recently was looking at a train ticket and it was £20.
5 minutes later when i went to book (after phoning a mate to confirm) it was now £24 as it had passed midday.
ethel
Well-Known Member
i think that some of the train companies operate that way. i'm pretty sure that NXEC do. the cheaper first class tickets will be a result of the allocation of (for example) the 14 day advance standard tickets selling out, but the 14 day advance 1st class tickets still being available. a lot of people don't bother to check the 1st class fares.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Also the difference in 1st class luxury is negligible to me. Its just snob value.
A slightly bigger seat that makes little difference to me, a free cup of tea (on some providers) and a 1st class lounge at the station that no one ever uses.
Oh and more plugs for phones and laptops i guess. Big deal.
A slightly bigger seat that makes little difference to me, a free cup of tea (on some providers) and a 1st class lounge at the station that no one ever uses.
Oh and more plugs for phones and laptops i guess. Big deal.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'd like to see a system that didn't penalise you for not wanting to plan your life weeks ahead.
I'd have each service classified as Peak, Shoulder or Off Peak. 3 categories and no more. Every timetable any operator produced would have to be to a standardised form and would be colour-coded so you could easily see which category any service was in. Similar information would be shown clearly on station departure boards.
For any journey there would just be 3 fares, to correspond with the 3 categories.
If you got on a peak train with an off-peak ticket you'd simply pay the difference.
I'd do away with returns and price everything on the basis of singles.
These fares would be regulated, and available up to the point of departure.
Operators would be able to offer their own cheaper advance purchase fares if they so wished.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Sorry but you can't have both. Either advanced fares so you aren't penalised or no advanced fares.
TBH though i agree with your first statement. I'd love to be able to buy a direct ticket to London for tomorrow for a mere £15 just as if i booked 3 weeks ago and had split the tickets. Instead of the advanced current price of £28.50. Or £79 for an anytime single. Or £56 for an offpeak single.
ethel
Well-Known Member
the only one that is worth the money is virgin west coast. free food and booze.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
It plain wrong. 1st class used to mean something.
Last time i traveled 1st class they'd parked the train so that 1st class was furthest away from the platform entrance and we had to walk further than the peasants. I expected some kind of golf caddy type vechicle to be laid on to make up for this but oh no.
Then believe it or not they expected us to walk to the buffet car. Where was our waitress? Probably skiving off sick.
No free booze or food.
Complete lack of a casino and they didn't even show a movie.
I shall be writing to the Times to express my disgust.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, yes, perhaps it can seem to be contradictory to say that. What I really mean is that when we are considering the cost of rail fares and whether they are reasonable, it is the walk-up ones that are the ones that should be discussed. In other words, it's not acceptable for the government, the rail regulators or the train companies to use the availability of cheap advance purchase fares as an excuse for making the walk-up fares more expensive.
I'm quite happy for the super-cheap ones to exist as well, as a kind of added bonus, as long as the walk-up fares are reasonably priced.
In this recent "simplification process", the advance purchase fares were simplified, but, despite what they might try and claim, the walk-up fares have not been simplified. What this tells me is that the government is not interested in making walk-up fares easy to understand, and are not standing up to the train companies who seem to want to run everything on an airline-like advance purchase system.
By making walk-up fares more complicated to understand than train-specific AP ones, people who want to use them are penalised.
Likewise, all AP fares are now available as singles, but the cheaper walk-up fares are not (well, they are, but the single costs as much as the return). Again, you are penalised if you want to make a single journey on a walk-up fare.
Idaho
continuity character
I don't know where you get your information from but you are wrong.
If I want to travel to London from Exeter on monday and arrive at a reasonable time (before 11am say) then I have the option of the 0655 or 0752 to Paddington - taking 2hr 5 mins or 2hrs 11 mins respectively.
The Waterloo train leaves at 0645 or 0739 taking 3hrs 34 mins or 3hrs respectively.
You are either deluded, or work in the marketing department of FGW.
ethel
Well-Known Member
all right then 49 mins. still, if it saved me £100. i'd take the slower train...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If she works in the marketing department of FGW she's not doing a very good job, recommending you to get a cheaper fare on the SWT route ...
ethel
Well-Known Member
indeed.
