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Question Simple info on logo filetype

Discussion in 'photography, graphics & art' started by Corax, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Hey y'all, I need some advice from people that know WTF they're doing. :thumbs:

    I'm going to start selling jars of my hot bajan sauce, and accordingly I've put together a simple logo and label - in GIMP. I'm then exporting to JPG and pasting into MS Word and/or MS Pub.

    I designed it in the size the labels will be (about 7cm x 5cm) rather than a larger size and then scaling it - don't know if that was the right thing to do - but what I've ended up with is diagonals that look a bit jagged.

    What have I done wrong, and can I rectify it?

    Thanks in advance :)
     
  2. RoyReed

    RoyReed Must fly!

    Show us the logo/label and it will be easier to give advice.
     
  3. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    You should design it bigger than it'll be printed then scale it down but hopefully you can rescue this rather than needing to redo it.
    The jagged edges are because the resolution is too low. Resolution is measured in two ways - the dimensions of the image and how many pixels/dots there are per inch.
    I don't know GIMP but you should be able to set the Pixels Per Inch setting up higher and hopefully it'll redraw with more pixels in your 7x5cm image. I *think* 300 ppi is right for printing (this then goes to 300dpi which sounds right but it's been a long, long time since I've designed anything for print).
    See if there's an image settings dialogue box you can open to change the pixels per inch / dots per inch setting.
    If you can't set the ppi/dpi then you need to draw this at a bigger scale then scale it down.
     
  4. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Dammit! It would have been a damn sight easier to draw it larger and scale, but I thought doing it at its final size and zooming was the 'right' way. I guess it would have been if I'd adjusted the ppi, but I didn't - just checked and it's seventy-fucking-two. :facepalm:

    No wonder it looks jaggy.

    Changing the ppi doesn't seem to force it to redraw on its own. I'm wondering if chucking it through the sharpen filter now might work though...?

    GIMP is essentially the same as a pretty fully-featured Photoshop, but it's opensource and free! :cool:
    (I'm amazed that beginner pro designers still shell out for PS when GIMP's available)

    Thanks BigTom
     
    BigTom likes this.
  5. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Urgh. No, the sharpen filter doesn't fix it, just... well, fucks it up really.

    Anyone got any clever ideas how I can rescue this without starting from scratch?
     
  6. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    No, but if you want me to try it in photoshop later tonight I can see if that can do anything. edit: just realised I'm not in tonight so would be tomorrow
    I reckon you'll have to redraw it I'm afraid.
     
  7. de_dog

    de_dog Mickey! Mickey from Leicester

    Here is one idea: Convert it to vectors, then back to a bitmap format.

    Get Inkscape (GPL like Gimp)
    Drag the image into an Inkscape window
    Path > Trace Bitmap (some options, the actual 'do it' process gives little feedback - look for a new layer in the document)
    Then export it as a PNG.

    Worth a try and will also result in you having Inkscape available for the future* :)

    *Friday perhaps.
     
  8. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    A couple thoughts re: logo - make sure your design can scale both up and down effectively and remain readable. Complicated logos can look a mess when they get reduced down for web use, thumbnails etc.

    Ideally the logo should be in vector format so it can be scaled up with no jaggies. Retrospectively converted a bitmap (JPG) graphic into a vector file is not always successful. It would be good to see the design.
     
  9. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    I'd say 300dpi is only ok if its in full colour CMYK doc or at least 1200dpi if in mono though depends what kind of paper you are printing on - 800dpi is only ok if on lower quality paper.
     
    BigTom likes this.
  10. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Thanks all.

    I don't even know whether XCF (GIMP's native file format) is vector or not tbh. I just kinda assumed it would be, given the nature of the tools. :confused:

    The design itself should be pretty scalable I think. At this stage it's very simple - although I may will play around with it in later iterations to make it a bit more 'professional' as opposed to 'village fete'...

    [​IMG]

    Don't laugh - I'm learning!

    It's the local village's crest, recoloured, and a very badly drawn chilli. Yes, I know the chilli's dreadful - I just refuse to use a creative commons pic by someone else, even though there's loads out there that are much better. :D

    It took me about an hour just to work out how to use paths at all. :facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  11. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    You defintely want to try to draw that as a vector file - the lines etc are perfect for it and you might look to see if someone has drawn a vector file chilli that you can use freely as to save yourself some time/effort.
    atm the image doesn't look symettrical, like the diamond is too far left I think compared to the cross or something, I'm not sure, but it looks a bit off for some reason.
     
  12. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    It's not terrible, but my advice is to go for something much simpler, maybe just picking up some elements of what you want to get in there. It doesn't look like a food logo at all and black and red are rarely great colours for food. Here's some examples and ideas. Note that most of them are dead simple.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Ah bollocks - I'm going to have to start again in Inkscape aren't I. Oh well.

    You might be right about the shield - I admittedly did nick an image off the net and recolour it.

    There are tonnes of free-to-use vector chillies out there, but I don't want to do that, simply because I enjoy teaching myself new skills for a purpose.
     
    BigTom likes this.
  14. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    BigTom likes this.
  15. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Red works here I reckon because it's Chilli - although as I'm typing this I'm thinking that if only the chilli was red in the logo it would stand out and that would be good.
     
  16. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    I thought it was simple! As I'll be selling it locally, and the name of the village is part of my 'brand name', I thought incorporating the village shield was a nice touch. Maybe I should just drop the chilli altogether? I'll be having circular labels on the lids, so perhaps I could just have 1-5 chillies on there to indicate the heat rating of the sauce.

    On reflection, wherever I have a chilli, if I do, I'd prefer something more stylised. I could even take it to the extreme and go for something that basically looks like a semi-colon, with the bottom bit in red and the dot in green. Hmm.....

    You're probably right about the colours. The subdued rural tones above wouldn't be right either though - it's a hot sauce, it needs to have that POW! feel to it. Maybe I ought to go stare at a colour wheel for a few hours.
     
  17. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

  18. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Another idea I'm musing - I could design the shield in more subdued colours, make it more of a curved shape, and then use the curve of it to render a stylised chilli along the right hand side, or running along the outside edge of it. Opinions?

    ETA: Bollocks; I don't even have Inkscape any more. Download ahoy!
     
  19. RoyReed

    RoyReed Must fly!

    Well all of that (with the possible exception of the chilli if it's got a photographic look - hard to tell at that scale) would be better as vector artwork. The chilli too if it's just two flat colours.

    If you wanted to save the final version as a bitmap it would also be better in PNG format rather than JPG - PNG is better for graphics images like this with flat areas of colour. Like other people have said, for print, bitmaps should be done at 300dpi (or better) and at the final size (or larger).

    I don't know about MS Pub, but Word can import images in vector format (WMF and EMF). Pub must be able to use some vector formats as well (I'm guessing SVG), but I've never used it, so don't know which.

    See your PM inbox.
     
    BigTom likes this.
  20. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    Thanks Roy, I've replied via pm. Really appreciated. :cool:

    I'm pretty damn sure MS Pub supports vector formats; I know some professional DTP folks that use it as standard. It used to be a bit of a laughing stock, it was awful all round - but it's improved massively in more recent iterations.
     
  21. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    It's not cheating. It's finding the best way to effectively market your product which you presumably want to do as well as you can. You're not a designer so why leave such an important part of the product to - no offence meant here - your amateurish ways?
     
  22. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    My honest opinion that it's pretty awful. The village shield quickly becomes meaningless if you start selling outside the area and it's not even an attractive design. The logo should - in some way - at least hint at what the product is about, although that doesn't have to be literal.

    If it's home made, then get a home made-looking font, if it's a cottage industry then put in something to reflect that, etc etc. Looking at all the major brands - almost pall of them have very, very simple logos that are easily recognised. Yours looks like a geometric smudge from a distance.

    (I don't mean to be rude here but this is something I do know something about and good presentation can make a huge difference to the success of your venture).
     
  23. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    Spend 15 quid on fiverr website and have someone turn it around for you in 24 hours :thumbs:
     
  24. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    No offence taken. :cool:

    It's probably a lot better than a lot of stuff sold at these farmers markets - think misaligned comic sans labels done in Word - so I initially felt reasonably happy with it. But with this thread's feedback in mind I now look at it and cringe a bit lol. Yeah, you're right, it is pretty awful isn't it? :D

    This is an amateurish venture at the moment though. I'm looking to make a small profit at local farmers' markets in this rural backwater, that's all, not take over the world. Having said that, there is a niche for what I'm selling - the only thing widely available that comes close to it is Aunt May's, and my recipe is still significantly different. It's more like Windmill, but I've only ever found that in a couple of afro-carribbean shops in cities - and I live in the socio-cultural deserts of East Anglia at the moment...

    I will do a complete redesign based on comments gratefully received here. In the meantime RoyReed has incredibly kindly taken the design and redone it to make it a thousand times better. I'll use that for the first batch.

    Between now and the second batch I'll have a play with Inkscape (I've used it before, a bit), watch YouTube tutorials, read design articles on logos - and colours - and go from scratch.

    You're right that I'm not aiming to be designer, but this is currently a pocket-money venture to try and get myself back doing something productive post-breakdown, so I have the time to improve my skills with these packages - and just as importantly, my eye for these things. I'm already a jack of all trades, and it can't hurt to put another small spanner in my toolkit. I have the advantage of already having a lot of ability in making things look nice - but that's been things like patient information leaflets and presentations, so quite a different type of thing :)

    If I find I keep selling out within five minutes and get approached by a buyer from Tescos then I'll get a professional in! :D
     
    BigTom likes this.
  25. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm agreeing with dropping the shield. I thought it was a nice touch, and got a bit attached to the idea. I need to let go... :( :D
     
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  26. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    You'll never regret sorting out decent branding for your product. With a professionally presented product, you can concentrate on making the sauce as good as possible and let your reputation grow. And remember: simple is always best for logos!
     
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  27. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    ^ what he said. Now it's the time to get it right so good work on putting the effort in.
     
  28. Corax

    Corax Read my blog you bastards.

    This is the flag of Barbados, the origin on Bajan hot sauces

    [​IMG]

    That trident something worth playing with maybe? I'm wondering about suggesting chillies by having it in red, with the tips in green...
     
  29. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    That definitely sounds worth trying, I'd probably also see if it would work to make them chillis, or have a hand holding three chillis in that formation. I suspect neither of this will work but I'd want to see to be sure.
    Letting go is hard but necessary sometimes.

    Do you have any background in art/design/photography/video in terms of theory? This can help you to shortcuts to making things that look good, most obviously is the use of symmetry and a symmetry, but also things like the rule of thirds and colour theory.

    Lots of the best designs break the rules but if you follow them you can usually get something that looks good. A quick Google image search for bajan hot sauce shows none using this symbol and the few that came up were quite traditional and busy. A simple, sharp graphic with the right font would stand out. Using the barbadian flag symbol links the design to the traditional sauces whilst the style is more modern. Depending on the feel you are aiming for I think this idea is worth pursuing anyway.
     
    Corax likes this.
  30. RoyReed

    RoyReed Must fly!

    If you do a Google image search on 'chilli logo' you'll find what others have come up with. There's lots of rubbish and a few good ones. Don't copy, but use them as inspiration.
     
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