Sicko

[Johnny Canuck3]

It gives the Republicans the ability to point to it as proof that the "wiberals" are using propaganda to push "socialised medicine" on "hard working americans." We're much better off if everyone just sticks to the facts. .

There were lots of facts in Sicko. I'm not a Moore fan, and I think the 911 documentary was as biased as it gets. But when he gets it right, he does a good job. I think he did that with Roger and Me, and with this one, Sicko.

The facts he presents aren't propaganda, and it's funny to think of the repubs levelling that charge. I think that the sale of insurance-based medicine to the US public, has to stand as one of the great propaganda triumphs of recent times.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't know of any american boards similar to this one. I can only find New Republic and Rush Limbaugh. Can you point me to one?

I don't, but I can direct you to the american medicine-buying junkets to Vancouver, and to the American tourists who often talk to canadian servers etc in restaurants, about our health care system.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thats the other thing that pops up in debates. Most of the government run health care systems we see arn't the best. Look at the care that military people get who are wounded and at clinics on Indian reservations. The one on the Pine Ridge reservation was closed this winter because there wasn't money to pay the heat bill. No one wants to copy that.

Is the only alternative a system where you are most likely to be turned down for treatment by your insurer, and if you elect to pay for it yourself, you will be forced into poverty?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

A friend and his wife, both Canadians, went to live in LA. After a couple of months, she was crossing Sunset Boulevard, and was knocked down by a car. She sustained serious injuries, was put on life support, which was discontinued after a couple of weeks.

My friend, having just lost his wife, received a bill from the hospital for $600,000.
.

That's absolutely shocking.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

That said, Americans always claim that our system is 'socialist'. Yet China is (supposedly) socialist and doesn't have any free healthcare whatsoever. The system pretty much sucks as much as the American one.

 

[Idris2002]

A friend and his wife, both Canadians, went to live in LA. After a couple of months, she was crossing Sunset Boulevard, and was knocked down by a car. She sustained serious injuries, was put on life support, which was discontinued after a couple of weeks.

My friend, having just lost his wife, received a bill from the hospital for $600,000.

My mother in law likes to travel, but being senior, her health isn't the best. Twice now, once in Spain, and once in UK, she has had to receive emergency treatment in hospitals. In both cases, there was no charge for the services.

My late father worked in hospitals in Detroit in the late 1960s, and on numerous occasions he said to me 'private medicine is a swindle'.

I've spoken to some of his former colleagues in the recent past, who've also done time in the states, and even the ones who are as right wing as they come have come back from the US utterly appalled by what they saw of the medical system there.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

... and on the other hand I've heard Americans who live in the UK claim that our hospitals are 'third world', that the ones available free on medicaid in the US are as good as any NHS ones, and that the private ones are lightyears ahead...

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

A friend and his wife, both Canadians, went to live in LA. After a couple of months, she was crossing Sunset Boulevard, and was knocked down by a car. She sustained serious injuries, was put on life support, which was discontinued after a couple of weeks.

My friend, having just lost his wife, received a bill from the hospital for $600,000.

That's both appalling and not that unusual. Sadly.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

... and on the other hand I've heard Americans who live in the UK claim that our hospitals are 'third world', that the ones available free on medicaid in the US are as good as any NHS ones, and that the private ones are lightyears ahead...

There's nothing wrong with the hospitals. In fact some of the best treatment to be had in the world will be found in US hospitals. The problem is access. If you don't qualify for medicaid (and its very difficult) or have really good health insurance, getting sick is a real financial difficulty. That's a large and growing percentage of the population. Although I have minimal health insurance, I'm in that group.

 

[London_Calling]

That said, Americans always claim that our system is 'socialist'. Yet China is (supposedly) socialist and doesn't have any free healthcare whatsoever. The system pretty much sucks as much as the American one.

With respect, I'm not sure you're on top of this subject.

It's propaganda, anyone who's been aware of the debate for the past decades knows it's right-wing propagada to invoke the word "socialised".

Just to be clear, USA children enjoy learning to read, write, add, subtract and everything else in an identically funded system (to the NHS) known as 'school' i.e. almost all American kids attend 'socialised schools', excpet no ones invokes the nasty 'socialised' word.

 

[catrina]

... and on the other hand I've heard Americans who live in the UK claim that our hospitals are 'third world', that the ones available free on medicaid in the US are as good as any NHS ones, and that the private ones are lightyears ahead...

But this is true. NHS hospitals are filthy, or at least the ones I've been to are (and this is backed up by the ridiculous number of suberbug cases here compared to other countries). I was shocked when I moved here. I had blood drawn from a decrepit ward of a nasty hospital, with an unsanitary booth, and the phlebotomist wasn't wearing gloves.

Medicaid hospitals in the US aren't much different.

Private hospitals are lightyears ahead.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

With respect, I'm not sure you're on top of this subject.

It's propaganda, anyone who's been aware of the debate for the past decades knows it's right-wing propagada to invoke the word "socialised".

Just to be clear, USA children enjoy learning to read, write, add, subtract and everything else in an identically funded system (to the NHS) known as 'school' i.e. almost all American kids attend 'socialised schools', excpet no ones invokes the nasty 'socialised' word.

I said "Americans claim", i.e. I was not supporting or endorsing that view in any way whatsoever.

 

[catrina]

Just to be clear, USA children enjoy learning to read, write, add, subtract and everything else in an identically funded system (to the NHS) known as 'school' i.e. almost all American kids attend 'socialised schools', excpet no ones invokes the nasty 'socialised' word.

The US does have socialized medicine - the VA health system (or veterans' affairs, for those not in the know). Used to be fantastic, although Bush ironically cut spending to fund his war, so now all his veterans aren't being cared for.

All free, paid for with taxpayer money.

The free market just doesn't work for basic rights. Conflict of interest, end of. People complain here all they want, but I haven't seen even the staunchest BNP argue against the NHS. They just think you should be British to access it.

 

[_angel_]

But this is true. NHS hospitals are filthy, or at least the ones I've been to are (and this is backed up by the ridiculous number of suberbug cases here compared to other countries). I was shocked when I moved here. I had blood drawn from a decrepit ward of a nasty hospital, with an unsanitary booth, and the phlebotomist wasn't wearing gloves.

Medicaid hospitals in the US aren't much different.

Private hospitals are lightyears ahead.

SOME nhs hospitals are dirty. They've been mainly clean the ones I've been to. Had two children safely (individual delivery suites with their own bathrooms), had minor surgery, son has had a small operation. Clinically I haven't had anything to complain about.

The one thing I would say the nhs get wrong (like a lot of large organisations) is communication, actually keeping the patient informed of what is going on. That quite often is lacking.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

The NHS might not be perfect but people in a lot of the world would still give anything to have something similar.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

With respect, I'm not sure you're on top of this subject.

It's propaganda, anyone who's been aware of the debate for the past decades knows it's right-wing propagada to invoke the word "socialised".

Just to be clear, USA children enjoy learning to read, write, add, subtract and everything else in an identically funded system (to the NHS) known as 'school' i.e. almost all American kids attend 'socialised schools', excpet no ones invokes the nasty 'socialised' word.

There are people who'd like to do away with that bit of "socialism" too.

It used to be that public utilities were all locally government owned. In the 1950s all our local gasoline stations were owned by the city. The gas company and the electric company were similarly public entities. We had the lowest utility bills in the country. Since then the gas company has gone private. Service sucks and the bills have doubled and tripled. The electric company has stayed in public hands and we still have the lowest electrical rates in the country.

 

[_angel_]

There are people who'd like to do away with that bit of "socialism" too.

It used to be that public utilities were all locally government owned. In the 1950s all our local gasoline stations were owned by the city. The gas company and the electric company were similarly public entities. We had the lowest utility bills in the country. Since then the gas company has gone private. Service sucks and the bills have doubled and tripled. The electric company has stayed in public hands and we still have the lowest electrical rates in the country.

I'm impressed you've managed to stave of electricity privatisation!

How come they didn't manage to get their hands on that?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I'm impressed you've managed to stave of electricity privatisation!

How come they didn't manage to get their hands on that?

Very dedicated people on the ulitities oversight board. I suspect that sooner or later they'll get it done. We lost our public hospital to a for-profit a couple of years ago.

 

[Red Horse]

Just think Moore sets himself up to be torn down tbh. Getting the opinions of a couple of your family isnt objective journalism. Nor is speking to one of the best-off GP's in the country.

 

[G. Fieendish]

I managed to get hold of a copy of the Sicko DVD, & the extra features are intresting to say the least...
(Examples include Mr Moore interviewing/chatting to a worker for the French subsiduary of General Electric, about healthcare, & interviewing Tony Benn....).
Incedentally, the next Michael Moore release on R2 DVD is The Awful Truth boxset, though will Optimum include the "British Minute", that was in the original Channel 4 showing, or will it just be a "portover" of the R1 DVD, contentwise...?
(The British Minute was at the very end of the Channel 4 showings, & ran just before the end credits, due to advert related differences in programme lengths between the U.K & U.S, & featured stuff that the U.S would not allow to be broadcast on network T.V ...)

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

There are people who'd like to do away with that bit of "socialism" too.

It used to be that public utilities were all locally government owned. In the 1950s all our local gasoline stations were owned by the city. The gas company and the electric company were similarly public entities. We had the lowest utility bills in the country. Since then the gas company has gone private. Service sucks and the bills have doubled and tripled. The electric company has stayed in public hands and we still have the lowest electrical rates in the country.

Similar here. The electrcity is still delivered by a Crown corporation, and the rates are fairly low. The telephone company and the natural gas company were privatized quite some time ago, and the rates went way up, and they'll cut your service at the drop of a hat if you get behind in payments.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Getting the opinions of a couple of your family isnt objective journalism..

No it's not, but I can tell you that the anecdotal evidence from his canadian aunt and uncle, is reflective of the actions and attitudes of a vast majority of Canadians.

 

[DexterTCN]

Just think Moore sets himself up to be torn down tbh.

Yes but that's what happens when you stand up. For his faults, whether they be character/directorial/political/national he's not that bad and I enjoy his stuff. There's an American description which probably suits him - schmaltzy.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I thought this thread looked a bit familiar. I was about to post the same thing I said on the first page

I have to say that I worked in a healthcare-related company in the US, and one of the things that everyone I talked to complained about was that whenever they said where they worked in a social situation, somebody would start to rant about how they or their friend or someone in their family was being fucked hard over a period of years for a ridiculous amount of money, and the person concerned always knew it was true and could only really pass the buck a bit in their own defence ("it's the insurers", "it's the hospitals" etc).