littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Things that aren't there?
So the appeal to a 'we' that is not Indians, Asians or Afro-Celts followed by the stuff about flags isn't there?
Show of Hands / Country Life / Roots - what is it to be english?
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
So the appeal to a 'we' that is not Indians, Asians or Afro-Celts followed by the stuff about flags isn't there?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What you're going to ignore rhe aboe look that lyrics?
It mans a genral pissed-offednes with those who hide their specific interest behind a general interest - i,e the flag.
You really really do hate everyone and think they're thick racist dupes don't you?
the button
out on the kocker
How about, "I've lost my national identity to nationalists on the one hand, and whining liberal fuckwits on the other"?
FWIW, English folk song is one of the few things that makes me proud to be English, but I realise that might make me a blood-soaked racist.
I think the lyrics are I've lost St George in the Union Jack its my flag too and I want it back. I think it is more of a dig that English identity has been consumed in the idea of the UK waving pillocks in the BNP etc. and think they speak for "the English".
Yeah I noticed that some pretty fucking nasty types had posted on there, which is sad. Of course that is the problem with releasing a song like that. The English movement if there is such a thing, has yet to tear itself away from the nutetrs like the SNP and Plaid have managed to do.
I'm hope it will and if it manages to isolate the nut cases in BNP and adopt a broad welcoming approach to all residents of England then I think it can be a positive thing.
I'd say ime a lot of English folk music tends to be left wing orientated in lyrics and background so there is no reason why any kind of English identity has to be assoicated with racists, anymore then that the Muslim religion has to be assoicated with the Taliban, Americans with George Bush and Germans with the Nazis.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, that's me to a tee.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Just ignore everything that everyone posts.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Give me another interpretation of your behaviour.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Creeping fascism
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm told that I'm seeing things that aren't there. I explain exactly what I see there, quoting the lyrics, and I'm accused of ignoring people's posts?
I haven't thrown abuse on this thread and I'm not going to, but I've made it very explicit what I have a problem with and why.
the button
out on the kocker
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're asking for possible explantions for lyrics then ignoring those offered.. You're not challenging them. You're just make the same post as before your asking. Why ask? You clearly don't care what anyone else has to say.
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
That is what folk music is IMO. It just becomes traditional when they've been giving a shit about it for a good few years.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You said 'crude English nationalist hymn, could be sung by black or white'.
IMVHO that is a little naive about the attitudes of many black people towards English nationalism, and their experience of British/English nationalism in general.
I agree the interpretations of those bits that butchersapron, TomPaine and the button have put forward so there's no point reiterating what they've said. I also agree that parts of that song are clumsy and some of the thinking behind it (as I interpret it) is rather parochial. But you're making a flagpole out of a matchstick.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Don't you quote the Levellers like they're beyond reproach 
For what it's worth I see what lbj is saying. I don't like that song, it seems badly judged and loads of proper racists will be all "yeah take back the Union Jack". I just don't think that it necessarily indicates an issue with the band.
For what it's worth I see what lbj is saying. I don't like that song, it seems badly judged and loads of proper racists will be all "yeah take back the Union Jack". I just don't think that it necessarily indicates an issue with the band.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why o why does Bruce Springteen love the US so much? Does he not know etc
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I asked you to show me the bits they made up though. I'm familiar with this song and don't see anything that is obviously untrue?
Obviously they have a popular following though as a band judging by their gigs at the Royal Albert.
For 'Duelling Banjos', 'American Pie'
It's enough to make you cry
'Rule Britannia', or 'Swing low...'
Are they the only songs we English know?
CLEARLY MADE UP .. BEATLES SMALL FACES EWAN MCOLL OASIS ENGLISH PEOPLE SING PLENTY OF SONGS .. BUT NOT THE ONES SOH LIKE .. ( sure i acccept it is rhetorical mind)
When the Indians, Asians, Afro-Celts
It's in their blood, below their belt
They're playing and dancing all night long
So what have they got right that we've got wrong?
SO ONLY INDIAN ASIANS AND AFRO CELTS PLAY MUSIC AND DANCE??? ITS LIKE BEAT ROCK PUNK TWO TONE, INDIE AND RAVE (etc) NEVER HAPPENNED
Seed, bud, flower, fruit
They're never gonna grow without their roots
Branch, stem, shoot
They need roots and
THE IDEA 'ENGLISH' PEOPLE HAVE NO ROOTS IS MADE UP .. MANY JUST DON'T REFLECT THOSE ROOTS AS SOH FEEL THEY OUGHT TO
And everyone stares at a great big screen
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens
Australian soap, American rap
Estuary English, baseball caps
PATROINISING AND EXAGGERATION AND INSULTING .. WHEN WERE TEENS EVERY NOT THE SAME? SHOULD ALL IRISH AND SCOTTISH INFLUENCE BEEN EXPUNGED FROM ENGLISH FOLK DANCE??
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk
Of the way we look, and the way we talk
Without our stories or our songs
GIBBERISH .. TOTALLY MADE UP .. WHO WHEN WHERE WHO IS ENGLISH IS MADE TO FEEL ASHAMED OF THE WAY WE LOOK AND THE WAY WE TALK!!!!
How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St. George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back
GEORGE ( THE TURK LOL ) WAS NOT IN THE JACK AS BRITAIN WAS RUN BY THE 'ENGLISH' .. HE JUST REALLY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT ... AND WHO EVER TOOK IT AWAY FROM HIM .. THE GEORGE HAS NEVER BEEN BANNED OR ANYTHING
( sorry caps to differrentiate from txt )
so yes mate i really think this above is all made up .. someone who is rightly frustrated with how the countryside has been raped and the communities destroyed but utterly fails to see ( in this song as op to CL) who has done this and insteead goes on some rant about englishness
Roots apparrently appearred on a load of Nat sites .. and SoH had it removed ( Griffin is very keen to appear a 'folk' fan lol) .. so i have no worry that SoH are dodgy in themselves but i think they express a disturbing ignorence of what this country is and how this country is run, in Roots ( unlike in CL) and how the lyrics that were written here can be used
yes strong song .. i wonder what all the bbc execs watching with the Cotswold cottages felt!
.. which is er surely one of the mottos of Urban 75!
i don't see anything that could be 'misinterpreted' in the same way there ..
I think you are missing the point of what they where trying to say here. There was an interview I read regarding this and interestingly the first verse was discussed. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Third time lucky on this... the guys Afro Celt produced their album, it was a pun that worked with the verse I believe. I don't think they are denying that Punk, NWOBHM, Indie etc, never happened. It as a reference to traditional song and dance. Take Ireland for example, traditional music can be found along side modern music and the genre is celebrated not derided as being "beardy real drinking bumpkins".
Or maybe it is a case that Neo-Liberalism is stamping out those roots and a sense of community? I would suggest from other songs they have written this would be the case.
I think this more of a reflection on our consumer culture to be honest. I believe from your last comment you haven't read many interviews with them. Let me quote:
http://www.ymca.org.uk/POOLED/ARTICLES/BF_WEBART/VIEW.ASP?Q=BF_WEBART_118297
I think that is fair enough. Ireland has strong culture of live music and local bands playing traditional as well as contemporary music. I was last over in Wicklow a couple of years back visiting friends, and though the live music scnee on a local level was very good.
Really so you don't think the press demonises the youth/sections of society in this country? You don't think the working class are treated by the media as a bunch of ill educated yobs? Or people are mocked for their accents as Bumpkins etc?
How about this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/conten...ices_changing_language_20050820_feature.shtml
and
To add to the above. I would say their is a fixation with the modern media on crap like Pop Idol etc. hence the prancing teen comment rings rather true to be honest.
Football players are also paid vast sums of money and treated like demi-gods by society I would thought that is fairly obvious. Look at David fucking Beckham.
George was possibly also a Palestinian and may never have visited Northern Europe, but does that matter? St Patrick was a Romano-Briton for example. I thought he patron saint was adopted and didn't require to be of actual nationality of said nation. St George is also the patron saint of a fair number of other places. What's the problem with that?
I'm an Atheist but don't have a problem with Patron Saints, most nations have them.
Your next comment doesn't make much sense though. The red cross in the Union Flag is St George's cross i.e. represents England. Surely you know that right, or have I misread your comment?
As for your comment regarding the English running Britain. I could spend hours upon hours discussing this point, but this really isn't the palce for it. However safe to say, the Empire was the combined effort of individuals from all corners of this set of islands. Whilst the English obviously made up the bulk due to the simple fact they where the more populous nation, to disgard the likes of LLoyd George, Gordon Brown, William Fitzmaurice, Arthur Balfour, Adam Smith, Campbell-Bannerman, Ramsay McDonald and a whole host of others who where part of the British establishment would be slightly silly.
Finally with regards to the flag again I think you are missing the point. I believe Knightly is saying that to be English does not require one to be a UJ waving BNP supporter. You know reclaiming your identity from the steroetype of Footie Hooligans, skin heads (or steroetyped skin heads, I'm aware not all are Nazis) and colonel blimp types who wrap themselves in the UJ.
1) fair play will wait
2) but as all through this posty you are saying ' i think' .. this issue is too serious to be that up for debate imho .. and yes for many irish trad music is still important but for millions it is not .. i think this is simplty a stage in history as opposed to 'irish into trad - english not'
3) ok i can accp[et that and CL suggest that .. BUT it does NOT say this .. this is YOUR interpretation .. the more obvious interpretation is that something as regards 'englishness' is going on
6) yes w/c and rural english are patronisied but it is one set of english ( bbc upper class m/c patronising another set of english ..
8 11 ) again your interpretation .. there is in my mind no suggestion of what you are refering too ..
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