littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Who are the 'we' that they are contrasting with the Asians and 'Afro-Celts', then?
Show of Hands / Country Life / Roots - what is it to be english?
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are there some people who are different from others? I am not, for example, a hindu.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
yeah I like it too. I think it has an element of truth to it though don't you?
What, the first one? Well yeah - I'm only going by the lyrics here, I've not heard the actual song. I'm having a look round for a listen now actually.
the button
out on the kocker
True. Although the relationship between broadside publishers and folk singers was symbiotic rather than one-way, with the publishers often acting as unwitting folk song collectors in their search for material.
On the "authenticity" front, the collectors often shot themselves in the foot by neglecting the communities where the oral tradition was the strongest. Although the much-maligned Cecil Sharp was one of the few "first revival" collectors to gather material from the gypsy and travelling communities. (As an aside, I have a recording of "Barbara Allen" sung by two 14 year-old sisters from the travelling community. Most of the verses, lovely tune, but sung in "country and western" harmonies. Recorded in the 1980s
). To me, the biggest fault of the folk revivals was an obsession with the song, to the almost total exclusion of the singer. Almost like the singers were mere vessels for the material, and neglecting their artistry and their way with the material. Often, they would only note the melody and one verse, paying no attention to the variations in tune, and backfilling the words from printed sources (a touch ironic, when you view their contempt for the "dunghill" -- as Child called it -- of popular song).
Anyway, that was my rant for this particular folk music thread.
I didn't say you shouldn't say anything; just that what you were saying was misdirected.!
TomPaine's right: you're seeing things that just aren't there.
The people that live in England, I wasn't aware that you had to be white to be considered English? As I pointed out earlier, the album was produced by the guys from Afro-Celt which is why I believe they dropped that in there.
I presume Irish folks for example of African decent join in singing Irish songs at the Rugby and Football etc. I presume they aren't excluded on the basis of their skin colour?
Folk music does not have to exclude you know.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is a very definite appeal to a 'we'. Yet this 'we' does not include 'Indians, Asians or Afro-Celts'. Who does it include?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's a we that is not 'Indians, Asians or Afro-Celt. And? That does actually coincide with some people you know? I'm not.
It doesn't appear to be a 'we' that says only we are legitmate. The very opposite. It's totaly clumsy and shit but...
the button
out on the kocker
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sorry, I think that song stinks. The more I look at it, the more it stinks.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The video is pretty good
I just watched it - - and it's not really my cup of musical tea. Oddly I think it needs to be more folky. Not knocking the lyrics or the sentiment though.
the button
out on the kocker
I'm not a fan of Show of Hands, tbh.
Chris Wood does it better.
Chris Wood does it better.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
On the other hand it's not actually criticising "Indians, Asians or Afro-Celts" for stealing anything. I'm suspicious of the concept of communities behind it, it would certainly attract twats and I think it's a dodgy thing to base a song around, but I couldn't say that the band themselves were dodgy just from that.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And the crap about flags?
"I've lost St. George in the Union Jack
It's my flag too and I want it back"
You want it back from whom? I have no idea how dodgy the band is, but that's a song I could very easily imagine being sung in full voice at a nationalist meeting. The most favourable interpretation of it I can think of is some kind of 'we English are being forgotten about'. And that's not too favourable really.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I'm not a fan of Show of Hands, tbh.
Chris Wood does it better.
I like that a lot more. Much more led by the quality of the singing and the lyrics.
the button
out on the kocker
He is good. I don't normally go for singer/guitar players, but if you liked that one, you should get his album "Trespasser." Here's another one: -
It's far from the best thing Knightley's ever written, but to the best of my knowledge Show of Hands aren't a couple of English nationalists or, worse, racists, if that's what you're suggesting...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
A crude english nationalist hymn. Could be sung by black or white. Unless they're making case that 'pakis' and 'niggers' stole the celtic countriess and developed their nationalism.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, he is, you are IJ.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
At the very least, that is an English nationalist song.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And at worst, and as per your proper non-best spin interpretation?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Honestly though, stuff about wanting the Union Jack back has to be pretty well qualified if it's not going to leave a nasty taste.
Not that I would base much on youtube comments, but look at the difference between the comments on "Country Life" and the ones on "Roots" -
I don't read it that way, and that's not how I think it was intended. But if you want to go looking for things that aren't there that's up to you.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Give me another credible interpretation of the flags bit.
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