Should we be loyal or fickle with our votes?

[kingmaker]

But now you have a choice!

You can vote conservative and get the traditional tory policies or you can vote labour and get the modernised tory policies.

Hurrah!

OK time for a few what ifs.

What if the conservatives promised to scrap ID cards? What if the conservatives promised to abolish income tax on the lowest earners? What if the conservatives promised scrap Trident? Or build loads of houses to let supply rise to meet demand.

Those are the sort of things that would make me switch. If you simply stick your head in the sand and say "they are all the same" then they will be.

 

[Nemo]

OK time for a few what ifs.

What if the conservatives promised to scrap ID cards? What if the conservatives promised to abolish income tax on the lowest earners? What if the conservatives promised scrap Trident? Or build loads of houses to let supply rise to meet demand.

Those are the sort of things that would make me switch. If you simply stick your head in the sand and say "they are all the same" then they will be.

Even in the unlikely event of the Tories promising to do all of those things, I still wouldn't vote for them.

 

[tbaldwin]

I agree, but unfortunately vote Labour and you get the same. More privatisation under Blair than under Major. More privatisation of the Civil Service under Blair than under Major and Thatcher combined.

Private prisons now. The only country to privatise air traffic control. We have got Tory policies, Tory intolerance, Tory self interest. Tax payers money is flooding into the NHS and straight out again, bypassing patient care and straight into the pockets of share-holders. Consequently we are seeing nurses laid off, a massive rise in MRSA (private cleaning co's), poor patient care but at greater cost to the tax payer. As with the railways - more tax payers money going in now than before privatisation for a worse service at greater ticket price. Massive sell off of council housing under New Labour = massive housing crisis. Tax payers money is also being poured into the slaughter in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If people merely vote against such policies, they will vote against Labour. For some that means protesting by voting for equally odious policies. We desperately need a real alternative.

The feeling that anything/anyone is better than this is rife. The politics of despair leads to former solid Labour voters opting for the BNP in e.g. Barking and Dagenham. We need the politics of hope. That doesn't come from simply saying 'don't vote Tory', or even 'don't vote Nazi'. It certainly doesn't come from saying 'vote Labour with no illussions' or 'vote Lib Dem'. We need a positive progressive alternative to New Labour and soon.

Utter shit any idea how much more money has gone into the NHS since 97?
Any idea of how many more nurses or teachers???
A pathetic load of rhetoric,lacking substance you could write camerons speeches....

 

[bluestreak]

Even in the unlikely event of the Tories promising to do all of those things, I still wouldn't vote for them.

i dunno actually. in the world of weird theories, if the tories repackaged themselves enough to appear to genuinely offer friendly policies i might vote for em. depends how cold it gets in hell though innit.

i've voted libdem, labour, green, socialist, and independent over the years. i've also spoilt my paper and refused to vote. depends on the line up. i'll use it tactically if i feel it's necessary, vote for the least of the evil if i feel like it, but generally i subscribe to the "whoever you vote for, government wins" don't vote it only encourages em POV.

 

[editor]

What if the conservatives promised to scrap ID cards? <snip>

Oh, and in answer to your question, you can be as fickle as you like, but I sure as fuck won't be voting for Nu Tory.

Your naive belief that politicians will do what they promise is rather charming though.

But if you want to become a Tory boy, you go right ahead. You don't have to make excuses.

 

[Groucho]

Utter shit any idea how much more money has gone into the NHS since 97?
Any idea of how many more nurses or teachers???
A pathetic load of rhetoric,lacking substance you could write camerons speeches....

There has been more money in to the NHS. Trouble is it is being syphoned off into the pockets of share holders. That is not rhetoric. It is a fact that private provision costs more for less whether it is railways or hospital cleaners, or consultants in the Civil Service. New Labour's obsession with privatising everything in sight is undermining the health service which faces its greatest crisis in years. The public sector faces terminal decline unless the New Labour/Tory concensus is ended.

 

[kingmaker]

Oh, and in answer to your question, you can be as fickle as you like, but I sure as fuck won't be voting for Nu Tory.

Your naive belief that politicians will do what they promise is rather charming though.

Well if they don't I'll be taking my fickle vote right away from them again

But if you want to become a Tory boy, you go right ahead.

I didn't say that. I said we should be open to trying to get them to woo us. The alternative is to be eternal electoral fodder for Labour, or wasting our votes on minor parties or by abstaining.

 

[rich!]

...or wasting our votes on minor parties or by abstaining.

Strangely enough, all the major political parties were minor parties people wasted their votes on at some point.

(Full disclosure: lifelong Green party voter, and never wasted one of them)

 

[kingmaker]

(Full disclosure: lifelong Green party voter, and never wasted one of them)

ah yes, the green party

Number of MPs elected ?


A big fat ZERO

If you care so much about the environment then why not compare the green polices of Labour and Tories and choose which one suits you best.

 

[Nemo]

The alternative is to be eternal electoral fodder for Labour, or wasting our votes on minor parties or by abstaining.

Isn't it wasting your vote throwing it away on someone you don't want to win?

 

[kingmaker]

Isn't it wasting your vote throwing it away on someone you don't want to win?

Well unless we are going for full-blown anarchy you have to choose the least worst at some stage!

 

[Nemo]

ah yes, the green party

Number of MPs elected ?


A big fat ZERO

If you care so much about the environment then why not compare the green polices of Labour and Tories and choose which one suits you best.

Why do you insist that people should choose between Labour and Tory? That's like asking if they'd rather die from short-drop hanging or garrotting.

 

[Nemo]

Well unless we are going for full-blown anarchy you have to choose the least worst at some stage!

Let people who like them vote for them; whilst they're such a bunch of egregious charlatans and con artists, I never will.

 

[rich!]

If you care so much about the environment then why not compare the green polices of Labour and Tories and choose which one suits you best.

I did.

That's why I voted for the Green party.

Neither of those two parties *had* an environmental policy before the Greens started to get a noticeable vote at European elections...

 

[kingmaker]

So does anyone agree with me?

Anyone?

Please?

 

[mk12]

i've only voted a couple of times. I won't bother again I don't think.

 

[tbaldwin]

There has been more money in to the NHS. Trouble is it is being syphoned off into the pockets of share holders. That is not rhetoric. It is a fact that private provision costs more for less whether it is railways or hospital cleaners, or consultants in the Civil Service. New Labour's obsession with privatising everything in sight is undermining the health service which faces its greatest crisis in years. The public sector faces terminal decline unless the New Labour/Tory concensus is ended.

Utter shit as usual groucho....What % of money has gone into the pockets of shareholders?
The NHS has always had people making private profits. NHS spending has gone up nearly 300% in 7 years.
I dont agree with how NL have failed to reverse privatisation but to say they are just the same as the Tories is infantile bollocks.

 

[TonkaToy]

Learn some history. A tory leopard never changes its spots.

I'll never ever vote for the fuckers, no matter how much Cameron tries to get down with the voters.

But they have changed their spots though haven't they?

I won't vote Tory at the moment because they ain't tough enough on the unions. I've heard no union busting rhetoric from Cameron at all.

I want a gov' that's more Thatch than Thatch.

The Tories need to slide to the right a bit and NL needs to go back left a bit and then we can all enjoy ourselves like it's the 80's again.

** Walks off to get eggs and flour.

 

[Nemo]

But they have changed their spots though haven't they?

I won't vote Tory at the moment because they ain't tough enough on the unions. I've heard no union busting rhetoric from Cameron at all.

Of course you haven't; you've barely heard anything at all of any substance.

 

[kingmaker]

Of course you haven't; you've barely heard anything at all of any substance.

As opposed to gordon brown, who has been positively *brimming* with great policies

 

[Nemo]

As opposed to gordon brown, who has been positively *brimming* with great policies

Why should one have to choose between one cunt and another?

 

[kingmaker]

Why should one have to choose between one cunt and another?

We are going round in circles somewhat

I think I answered that above......

 

[TAE]

ah yes, the green party

Number of MPs elected ?


A big fat ZERO

If you care so much about the environment then why not compare the green polices of Labour and Tories and choose which one suits you best.

That has got to be one of the dummest arguments I have ever heard.

 

[bluestreak]

you gotta back the winner kids. only losers vote for parties who won';t win, no matter what their policies.

 

[Nemo]

I think I answered that above......

You haven't, that's the problem; you've just said we do.

 

[rich!]

That has got to be one of the dummest arguments I have ever heard.

I'm actually tempted to go and get some facts to beat it with, it's so dumb.

1874: Con 350 from 1091708 votes, Lib 242 from 1281159, Home Rule 60 from 90234

1910: Con 272 from 3,104,407, Lib 274 from 2,866,157, Lab 40 from 505,657, Irish Nationalist 71 from 74,047, a few others

1935: Con 387 from 10,025,083, Lab 154 from 7,984,988, Lib 21 from 1,414,010, National Lib 33 from 784,608, Irish Nationalist 2 from 46,715, a few others

1964 Lab 317 from 12,205,808, Con 304 from 12,002,642, Lib 9 from 3,099,283, no other mps.

This was a random selection from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_Kingdom_general_elections

Parties wax and wane. The issues of 30 years ago have gone, and new issues stand before us.

 

[ZWord]

You see this is the kind of misplaced 'football club' loyalty I'm talking about. If Maggie were running for election you would have a point. But she isn't. About the only significant players from that era left in the HOC are Widdecombe, Howard and Clarke and all three are expected to retire next time. So what would you be voting against? I put it to you it is merely a name.


And that would achieve what? Either the Tories or Labour will still win, you just won't have had your say. If the f*ckers want our votes lets make them earn them. Lets all be electoral whores

Either the tories or labour wil still win, >>?? If so, mainly because of people like you repeating the conventional wisdom as if it's a necessary truth, again and again, so that "everyone" believes it.

But with voting we're all a bit stupid, we all expect everyone else to vote from stupidity, and react accordingly.. "I'm intelligent, it's just everyone else that's the problem. " have to vote labour, even though they're identical to the conservatives, because everyone else, unlike me- isn't smart enough to work this out.."

 

[kingmaker]

The issues of 30 years ago have gone, and new issues stand before us.

Indeed. Which makes it rather silly for people to say "I'm not voting for the Tories because of what they did to the miners", or whatever

 

[poster342002]

We need the politics of hope.... It certainly doesn't come from saying 'vote Labour with no illussions'

Quite. Why, then, did it takes years of your party saying that before the penny finally dropped?

 

[PVP]

What about an alternative:

If you have lost faith in the party you traditionally vote for.......

If your current MP ignores how you ask him/her to vote in the Commons....

If you are unhappy with the current political system...

If you feel voting for minor parties or spoiling your ballot paper achieves nothing...

If you want to cause an electoral shock to the main parties without voting for a party with extreme views...

If you are sick of political deafness by the current crop of politicians...

then why not give the a wake-up call by rejecting all candidates!


The Protest Vote Party
Giving you the right to vote 'None of the Above'