Should veggie cafes provide a meat option?

[Dubversion]

But I know some pretty hardcore Vegans.. and yet I've not met anyone genuninly offended by watching other people eat meat.

Anyway.. hometime beckons..

it's not just about watching, is it? it's about storage and utensils and all the other issues already mentioned.

Hollis' next thread: why do we need gay clubs

 

[Hollis]

it's not just about watching, is it? it's about storage and utensils and all the other issues already mentioned.

I'm afraid I don't really buy that argument.

 

[Hollis]

Hollis' next thread: why do we need gay clubs

That isn't really analogous either is it.

 

[AnMarie]

But I know some pretty hardcore Vegans.. and yet I've not met anyone genuninly offended by watching other people eat meat.

Anyway.. hometime beckons..

My God ure amazing! lol

 

[Dubversion]

I'm afraid I don't really buy that argument.

your willingness to buy it, either way, is of no real consequence. having worked in a couple of veggie caffs, known people who've run them etc, i know what i'm talking about, whereas you're just trolling

 

[Dubversion]

That isn't really analogous either is it.

not directly analogous, but equally specious

 

[Hollis]

not directly analogous, but equally specious

I'd go for slightly more specious - if that's possible.

 

[rich!]

Really - I've never met a veggie who's objected to people eating meat in their prescence.

You've never eaten salmon pasta next to me, have you?

I've actually reached the stage where the smell of cooked meat often nauseates me beyond endurance. I have been known to leave a meal to go and get some fresh air rather than blow chunks over a carnivore

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I'm afraid I don't really buy that argument.

My sister in law is veggie, but if she comes over when we do a BBQ she brings veggie burgers and other stuff and we set up a smaller BBQ so that her food can be cooked separately from the meat, I wouldn't expect her to eat her veggie burgers of a grill that's had meat on it. Waste of time as the meat bits would go on her stuff. It's also useful for cooking things like sweetcorn that I don't like being messed up by meat from burgers.

 

[Hollis]

My sister in law is veggie, but if she comes over when we do a BBQ she brings veggie burgers and other stuff and we set up a smaller BBQ so that her food can be cooked separately from the meat, I wouldn't expect her to eat her veggie burgers of a grill that's had meat on it. Waste of time as the meat bits would go on her stuff. It's also useful for cooking things like sweetcorn that I don't like being messed up by meat from burgers.

Yes. I/we do similar.

 

[T & P]

Regarding the 'cross contamination argument': for those veggies who don't mind the taste of meat at all but simply don't eat it for moral reasons, surely it shouldn't matter one iota whether there is a small chance utensils have touched both meat and not meat products?

Sure, if something is dripping animal fat on a veggie dish can be an issue, but otherwise what's the problem? No one would be betraying their anti-meat stance simply for the possibility of coming into contact with traces of meat products Genuine question btw, not trying to troll or anything.

Having said this I understand why veggie restaurants exist and no, I don't think as a general rule they should be offering meat dishes, for various reasons already mentioned on this thread.

Still, there is this vegetarian breakfast place in Clapham Common and I bloody wish they would serve up real sausages. It's a lovely place to have a full English breakfast on a Sunday but it's out of bounds for me- if I'm after breakfast anyway.

 

[poet]

They should provide whatever the fuck they like. I'm vegan, ergo I rarely eat out - that's my choice, fortunately there's enough of us to warrant veggie/vegan restaurants. Joy of the free market. No veggie caff will see it's business improve if they start offering a token menu option for people ideologically opposed to "all that rabbit food shit"; mainstream restaurants who cater for the two million vegetarians in this country will.

 

[Velouria]

I mean, most restaurants try to accomodate veggies now, so why not the reverse? Surely its not too much to ask for 1 meat dish on the menu?

No. I don't expect an Indian restaurant to sell me spaghetti bolognese, or an Italian restaurant to sell me Rogan Josh, so why would I expect a vegetarian restaurant to sell me hamburgers?

 

[William of Walworth]

Only just seen this thread thankfully

Agree with the last two posts from poet (especially) and Velouria.

And with most of the other sensible posts on this thread putting the 'why the fuck should they' case ....

Dub knows the score

 

[rich!]

I'm afraid I don't really buy that argument.

Then I shall put it as simply as I put it to a former housemate:

See my pots and pans? You let meat touch them, I remove your fingers with this big chinese cleaver I use on swedes.
See your pots and pans? I won't piss or shit in them.

After that, we knew where we stood on the issue, and were able to share a kitchen for several years.

Mind you, we never did settle the toilet-cleaning question.

 

[rich!]

Regarding the 'cross contamination argument': for those veggies who don't mind the taste of meat at all but simply don't eat it for moral reasons, surely it shouldn't matter one iota whether there is a small chance utensils have touched both meat and not meat products?

Sure, if something is dripping animal fat on a veggie dish can be an issue, but otherwise what's the problem? No one would be betraying their anti-meat stance simply for the possibility of coming into contact with traces of meat products Genuine question btw, not trying to troll or anything.

Meat now revolts me.
The smell of it cooking sickens me.
The idea that someone could tolerate anonymised murder for their dining pleasure shocks me.

The worst of it is, when I was lickle I was an "ooh, no, don't want the vegetables, more roast beef" kind of child.

(Okay - does everyone agree that there is *at least one* vegetarian who *does not* want their food to come into contact with meat? Not for moral reasons. Not for taste reasons. For the same reasons you wouldn't want a steaming turd in your stew.)

 

[Dubversion]

it's also worth mentioning that anyone eating a pure vegetarian diet could be made very ill by eating meat (and before people start bleating, i'm sure the reverse is true, if unlikely). i've eaten meat a couple of times in the last 20-odd years and it made me sick as a dog. not veggie propaganda, just biology - there will be stuff in meat that you lose a resistance to over time.

 

[ScallyWag II]

Regarding the 'cross contamination argument': for those veggies who don't mind the taste of meat at all but simply don't eat it for moral reasons, surely it shouldn't matter one iota whether there is a small chance utensils have touched both meat and not meat products?

but that's the point, cross contamination is a no-no if you're veggie on moral gounds especially (imo)

 

[poet]

it's also worth mentioning that anyone eating a pure vegetarian diet could be made very ill by eating meat (and before people start bleating, i'm sure the reverse is true, if unlikely). i've eaten meat a couple of times in the last 20-odd years and it made me sick as a dog. not veggie propaganda, just biology - there will be stuff in meat that you lose a resistance to over time.

Very true - look at where people get food poisoning from and it's virtually all meat. Without the natural immunity meat-eaters get food hygiene risks are vastly multiplied. I couldn't give a piss if my chips have shared a fryer with someone's battered cod, I'm a vegan on moral and environmental grounds, but prepare my salad near a raw chicken and I'll bite your fucking ears off.

 

[Hollis]

Then I shall put it as simply as I put it to a former housemate:

See my pots and pans? You let meat touch them, I remove your fingers with this big chinese cleaver I use on swedes.
See your pots and pans? I won't piss or shit in them.

After that, we knew where we stood on the issue, and were able to share a kitchen for several years.

Yes - I understand this. I have a vegan friend who does similar.

 

[cyberfairy]

don't want to reply to what is probably a trolling thread but meat eaters can eat veggie food, veggies can't eat meat. After years of having veggie options being more potatoes or a roast dinner with no gravy as the restaurant 'forgot' about meat being in err meat gravy, have little sympathy for meat eaters as been taken out so many times for a nice pub meal when veggie becomes trying to choose between a foul spicy fucking bean burger or a micro veggie lasagne, not really wanting either but not wanting to offend/be a pain. If i ate meat now, would probably be really sick as not had it for so long.
Meat eaters should be educated into realising that something tasty can be eaten without dead flesh in it as before i was veggie i thought all veggie food would be disgusting. It was only when i went to stay with a veggie I realised how wonderfully varied it could actually be.

 

[rich!]

Yes - I understand this. I have a vegan friend who does similar.

I'm only a normal veggie, but I no longer have even the slightest sense of humour about it.

I'm still not quite sure how the transition happened. I think it started somewhere during the BSE crisis, when my college suddenly had roast beef on the menu every day.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Only just seen this thread thankfully

Agree with the last two posts from poet (especially) and Velouria.

what about mine, you hippy fucker!

I will cook you that meal I promised you both, as soon as my mum's operation is out of the way and I have more time.

 

[Maggot]

Regarding the 'cross contamination argument': for those veggies who don't mind the taste of meat at all but simply don't eat it for moral reasons, surely it shouldn't matter one iota whether there is a small chance utensils have touched both meat and not meat products?

Sure, if something is dripping animal fat on a veggie dish can be an issue, but otherwise what's the problem? No one would be betraying their anti-meat stance simply for the possibility of coming into contact with traces of meat products Genuine question btw, not trying to troll or anything.

If veggies aren't worried about a bit of meat contamination, they get labelled hypocrites. If they are concerned they are accused of being too fussy!

 

[Orangesanlemons]

I'm in the slightly odd position of being both a strict vegetarian (15 years now) and a chef who specializes in meat and game. If I don't have a problem with that, no-one else should. It's a personal choice.
Now I wouldn't have a problem eating in a cafe that put on a meat option, as long as obvious hygiene rules were adhered to, but a know a lot of people who would. The cafe owners would too, so it's very rare to see it. You just don't alienate your potential customer base.
As a hypothetical question, well... it's a bloody stupid one, as Hollis is doubtless well aware!

Having said all that, I had lunch yesterday in a pub in Brighton that had six (count 'em!) veggie options and one solitary meat offering. I've never seen that before, and turning the tables on my meat-eating mate was a very pleasurable experience. The look of incomprehension on his face was a picture... "oh, I guess I'll have the meat option then". Arf! Welcome to my world...

Oh, and I find veggie places that state on the menu that they refuse to re-heat meat-based baby-food on the premises a bit fucking much, to be honest. I can understand why they do it, but it just seems so damn snotty...

 

[Ms T]

Meat eaters should be educated into realising that something tasty can be eaten without dead flesh in it as before i was veggie i thought all veggie food would be disgusting. It was only when i went to stay with a veggie I realised how wonderfully varied it could actually be.

Well I for one am perfectly capable of both cooking and enjoying a vegetarian meal.

 

[William of Walworth]

Only just seen this thread thankfully

Agree with the last two posts from poet (especially) and Velouria.

what about mine, you hippy fucker!

I will cook you that meal I promised you both, as soon as my mum's operation is out of the way and I have more time.

I also posted ...

And with most of the other sensible posts on this thread putting the 'why the fuck should they' case ....

Your posts were very much in the sensible category

Apols for not keeping in contact re Stig's and my visit .... I'm sure it will happen though, looking forward!

 

[William of Walworth]

Oh, and I find veggie places that state on the menu that they refuse to re-heat meat-based baby-food on the premises a bit fucking much, to be honest. I can understand why they do it, but it just seems so damn snotty...

Never seen that. I'd agree it seems a tad zealous .....

 

[T & P]

but that's the point, cross contamination is a no-no if you're veggie on moral gounds especially (imo)

That's fair enough, even though no animal would have been killed on your own account.

I understand what you're saying but I got an impression that some veggies don't object to eating food at restaurants/cafes where meat is prepared, but would object to any meat whatsoever being sold at veggie restaurants. That's really what find a tad bizarre.

 

[T & P]

If veggies aren't worried about a bit of meat contamination, they get labelled hypocrites. If they are concerned they are accused of being too fussy!

Not from me Maggot, wasn't my intention- sorry if it came out that way. I've never been one to accuse anyone of hypocrisy regarding food.