Should unemployed people be allowed to work? and still keep their benefits....

[littlebabyjesus]

Which bit?

As others have pointed out, once you earn £10 over the dole, it is deducted pound-for-pound from your dole/housing benefit. It is also a pain in the arse getting your benefits put back up if the work ends.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, whilst they each put themselves on glorious pedastals as well, which gets my goat.

There's badco sucking on his crack pipe, Zachor, aka kbj, glorifying in his scabbing and derf exploiting children with impunity.

What really wonderful upright citizens these 'three stooges' are.

Makes me glad to be a dirty anarchist layabout cripple, so it does!

 

[Bakunin]

Makes me glad to be a dirty anarchist layabout cripple, so it does!

Me too. I love it.

Let us ride the dirty Anarchist layabout cripple bandwagon together, comrade, into a bright new Anarchist future!

MOOHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

 

[audiotech]

And yet I earn 18k+ a year whilst uni grads have to get there arses outta bed before 9am one day a week to sign on

UNFUCKINGBELEIVABLE

The vast majority of students will have looked very hard for a job sometime before they graduated. Some will be in work already, as this helped to see them through university. Others will be unemployed and looking for work.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I beg to differ. Many people on this thread appear to labor under the impression that the welfare state is attempting to help people. But in reality the welfare state is not attempting to do any such thing. That is my point.

Then your point is irrelevant to the issue, which is that the system was changed not as an exercise in oppression, but to suit an "economy drive". The result may have been (indeed was) oppression, but the intent was "efficiency savings" to fit in with the Chancellor's plan to "trim the fat" from our bureaucracy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And yet I earn 18k+ a year whilst uni grads have to get there arses outta bed before 9am one day a week to sign on

UNFUCKINGBELEIVABLE

Really?

I thought you'd been sacked for breaching health and safety regulations?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Then your point is irrelevant to the issue, which is that the system was changed not as an exercise in oppression, but to suit an "economy drive". The result may have been (indeed was) oppression, but the intent was "efficiency savings" to fit in with the Chancellor's plan to "trim the fat" from our bureaucracy.

Really? The system is extremely expensive to administer, and has become increasingly so over the decades as the requirements to show that you are actively seeking work become ever stricter, and means testing has spread. Much less than half the money spent on the benefits system ever makes it into the pocket of a claimant. Oppression's an expensive business.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really? The system is extremely expensive to administer, and has become increasingly so over the decades as the requirements to show that you are actively seeking work become ever stricter, and means testing has spread. Much less than half the money spent on the benefits system ever makes it into the pocket of a claimant. Oppression's an expensive business.

I'm addressing a particular policy (suspension of claim) that was set aside as a result of making the DWP workforce "efficient", not about the system as a system of oppression.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm addressing a particular policy (suspension of claim) that was set aside as a result of making the DWP workforce "efficient", not about the system as a system of oppression.

OK. The last time I signed on was about 5 years ago. I was able to do the odd day's agency work without signing off. The real headache was housing benefit. I faced an ongoing battle to stop them from suspending it every time I worked, and to get them to pay the right amount. I ended up with a mountain of letters from HB reassessing my claim.

Has the system changed since then.

 

[El Jefe]

I had worked and paid taxes for years without claiming a bean.
I only asked for what I had worked for but no way could I put up with that bunch of silly fuckers pushing pens around refusing to accept that I would do anything rather than claim.

What I did was tell them to stick their forms where the sun don't shine and bloody well sorted myself out.

Fuck the silly bastards to hell and fuck the lazy cunts claiming when they should be trying to earn a living for themselves.

You ignorant, arrogant, clueless sack of shit

 

[derf]

In the last 35 years I have been working I have never heard a claimant say they are 'owed a living'.

What a load of neo liberal crap!!

look at some of the shit posted on here about working and getting dole.
It's just a base form of capitalism trying to grab what they can but without doing too much for it.

 

[DotCommunist]

OK. The last time I signed on was about 5 years ago. I was able to do the odd day's agency work without signing off. The real headache was housing benefit. I faced an ongoing battle to stop them from suspending it every time I worked, and to get them to pay the right amount. I ended up with a mountain of letters from HB reassessing my claim.

Has the system changed since then.

HB? I doubt it very much. They are the most arcane and frustrating of the lot imo

 

[littlebabyjesus]

look at some of the shit posted on here about working and getting dole.
It's just a base form of capitalism trying to grab what they can but without doing too much for it.

Do you understand the word capitalism?

As I understand it, you boast on here about how well you live because you are in a poor country. Do you understand the mechanism that allows you to live so well on so little money?

 

[nightbreed]

look at some of the shit posted on here about working and getting dole.
It's just a base form of capitalism trying to grab what they can but without doing too much for it.

Dont take what you read here too seriously. If your whole view on life is based on what you read on u75 and similar forums you are fucking stupid.

Try and remember,the real scroungers are all those cunts getting huge undeserved bonuses in the financial markets. Instead of attacking the poor have a go at them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK. The last time I signed on was about 5 years ago. I was able to do the odd day's agency work without signing off. The real headache was housing benefit. I faced an ongoing battle to stop them from suspending it every time I worked, and to get them to pay the right amount. I ended up with a mountain of letters from HB reassessing my claim.

Has the system changed since then.

This is where the problem lies.
If you do casual work and inform the DWP office then your HB and CTB claims are ceased. This didn't used to happen unless you actually signed off, but now, as soon as you tell the office you've worked, that one little click on the computer sets in train the cessation of your CTB and HB claims.
People are rightly wary of digging themselves into that sort of shit-hole, especially given how soul-destroyingly hard it can be to convince the CTB and HB depts to back-pay or otherwise cover the ceased claims.

 

[Blagsta]

Which bit?

This bit - "you can have 16 hours or earn something like 80 quidders before it's deducted"

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is where the problem lies.
If you do casual work and inform the DWP office then your HB and CTB claims are ceased. This didn't used to happen unless you actually signed off, but now, as soon as you tell the office you've worked, that one little click on the computer sets in train the cessation of your CTB and HB claims.
People are rightly wary of digging themselves into that sort of shit-hole, especially given how soul-destroyingly hard it can be to convince the CTB and HB depts to back-pay or otherwise cover the ceased claims.

Yep, the system is set up such that if you play the game correctly, you get royally fucked. Few people can exist on the dole for long without doing something that is technically not allowed.

 

[panpete]

No, it defeats the whole object of getting a job.
You work, so you dont have to approach the dole for money, as you make your own.
If the money isnt enough, either your greedy or your bossmans a mizer.

 

[DotCommunist]

No, it defeats the whole object of getting a job.
You work, so you dont have to approach the dole for money, as you make your own.
If the money isnt enough, either your greedy or your bossmans a mizer.

minimum wage is a fucking robbery wage imo. Should be much higher.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The whole rationale behind the dole is wrong. Everyone should be given a basic living wage whether they are unemployed or working. Among many other things, this would force employers who pay low wages to improve their working conditions to attract employees.

The whole thing is upside-down. Instead of 'why should we hire you', it should be 'why should I come and work for you'. We'd have a much healthier society were this system to be introduced.

 

[DotCommunist]

The whole rationale behind the dole is wrong. Everyone should be given a basic living wage whether they are unemployed or working. Among many other things, this would force employers who pay low wages to improve their working conditions to attract employees.

The whole thing is upside-down. Instead of 'why should we hire you', it should be 'why should I come and work for you'. We'd have a much healthier society were this system to be introduced.

That's not going to happen. A similar shift of ethos is needed in the renting sphere, but again I think with present attitudes and governance it's not going to happen. It's far to close to what the sun would call 'loony left'

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It probably won't happen. That doesn't change the fact that I think it should, and that my real answer to the OP is that everyone should get the dole no questions asked, whether or not they are working.

 

[phildwyer]

Then your point is irrelevant to the issue, which is that the system was changed not as an exercise in oppression, but to suit an "economy drive". The result may have been (indeed was) oppression, but the intent was "efficiency savings" to fit in with the Chancellor's plan to "trim the fat" from our bureaucracy.

I see no effective difference between an "economy drive" and an "exercise in oppression." If you do, please explain it, for I believe there is none.

 

[badco]

This bit - "you can have 16 hours or earn something like 80 quidders before it's deducted"

It's true

Another poster gave more detail about it than I could after I posted

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's true

Another poster gave more detail about it than I could after I posted

It's not true. The figure is £10 – very different from 'something like £80'.

 

[Blagsta]

It's true

Another poster gave more detail about it than I could after I posted

don't be a dick any more than you have to be

 

[badco]

..

 

[badco]

..

 

[littlebabyjesus]

£10 over what you get on JSA.....so the JSA plus you can earn the same as JSA plus another £10?

If you earn £80 per week, the whole of your dole plus £10 of your housing benefit will be taken away.

 

[badco]

If you earn £80 per week, the whole of your dole plus £10 of your housing benefit will be taken away.

My mistake fair enough