Should UK teachers (Primary school) wear suits?

[Donna Ferentes]

Just think, if you had waite a year, Ed Balls would have fast tracked you through all this in just six months!

That's brilliant, isn't it?

"You're good at something else, so we'll put you in a school without giving you the chance to be trained properly."

 

[_angel_]

That's become common in the last fifteen years or so. When I was a kid (I'm 33 - similar to you, I think) it was almost unheard of for state primaries to have uniforms unless they were faith schools, but now it's the norm.

Primary school teachers wearing suits might be a Newcastle thing, though - I only see the head and deputy head wearing suits round here, and they don't wear them when they're actually teaching classes, for the reasons I gave before.

Hope your next placement's better (not referring to the clothing ).

Unheard of to have a uniform in primary school? Nope, not in Leeds and it wasn't a 'faith school'. We also had a uniform at middle school, altho you got a bit of choice in what to wear. Oddly, we didn't have a uniform at high school, but that was unusual.

Maybe you mean the return to shirt and tie wearing -- we certainly didn't have to wear them, just as long as we wore the right school 'colours'.

 

[brix]

That's brilliant, isn't it?

"You're good at something else, so we'll put you in a school without giving you the chance to be trained properly."

Or, to look at it another way, you and your mates fucked up the banking system so now we're going to fast-track you into teaching.

 

[dylanredefined]

you should wear suits jackets with leather patches on the elbows like my old maths teacher. and grow a beard. the kids love that.

Dont forget the pipe

 

[BlueSquareThing]

I wasn't quite clear: they don't wear suits, but black trousers, a white shirt, a tie and smart shoes are mandatory for male teachers. Female teachers seem to get a lot more leeway (but I won't complain about that as it would no doubt stir up all sorts of cans of worms)

Isn't it difficult when you're wearing a tie and you need to bend over a desk or you're doing art stuff or whathaveyou? I find it hard enough in a computer room on the occasions I wear a tie (some shirts just need ties...).

The "female teachers get away with it" is my get out clause if any smt dude ever tells me to wear a tie. I'll use it at the drop of a hat

Fwiw there was an article in the TES a year or so ago (might be 2 or 3, I forget these days) which gave "advice" on clothing which said very clearly that male teachers didn't need ties in the 21st century That's get out #2...

 

[BlueSquareThing]

And as for this loony 'six months' idea, Ed Balls should be shot.

Oh, I don't know. Can't anyone learn to teach? Isn't it just a case of getting up in front of a bunch of kids and launching into those natural lessons? The ones everyone has in them?

 

[BlueSquareThing]

you should wear suits jackets with leather patches on the elbows like my old maths teacher. and grow a beard. the kids love that.

That's geography teachers

 

[kabbes]

Suit? Suit?

Good god man, you should be wearing a cape and mortar board. Everybody knows that.

 

[ricbake]

Suit? Suit?

Good god man, you should be wearing a cape and mortar board. Everybody knows that.

Or these days a cape and your pants over your trousers!

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

That's brilliant, isn't it?

"You're good at something else, so we'll put you in a school without giving you the chance to be trained properly."

It's fucking ridiculous.

A lot of older teachers who qualified via B.Eds say that even th ePGCE is way too short as it is.

 

[_angel_]

It's fucking ridiculous.

A lot of older teachers who qualified via B.Eds say that even th ePGCE is way too short as it is.

Think it just about sums up governments total lack of respect for the teaching profession.... anyone can do it in six months training.

 

[kabbes]

What's better in the long run though? That we continue with an acute shortage of maths teachers or that we make this relatively small compromise to get maths teachers in the door and try to work with it until they gain the year or two's experience that will bring them up to the old standard? It's not like the new maths teachers are replacing the old ones -- they are an extra resource. They could even simply shadow the existing maths teachers for six months for no extra use of those existing teachers' resource.

It's just pragmatism. You have a lot of people with maths (and science) degrees, who know a lot about maths and who are currently and possibly temporarily out of work and looking for a new direction. You want to grab them quick before they settle into some other financial role. They probably can't afford to take years out of their earnings to go down the traditional route, but they might consider it if you can make the path easy enough.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Think it just about sums up governments total lack of respect for the teaching profession.... anyone can do it in six months training.

We had a class earlier in the term related to our final assignment, where we were looking at different periods and their depiction of teaching.

We watched a bit from Kindergarten Cop - a film I thought was pretty poor before, but having now attempted teaching, I could really relate to it - where Arnie comes in, and the kids are going haywire, and he's at a loss, until he brings in his policemen skills.

Our tutor said that the film was made at a time when education was being really criticised and devalued. The underlying philosophy is that anyone can learn a series of drills and so on and become a teacher, even when it's a 6ft3 cop in a kindergarten.

Quite interesting.

 

[BlueSquareThing]

What's better in the long run though? That we continue with an acute shortage of maths teachers or that we make this relatively small compromise to get maths teachers in the door and try to work with it until they gain the year or two's experience that will bring them up to the old standard?

Depends.

Is it my kids they're teaching in those first couple of years?

It's not like the new maths teachers are replacing the old ones -- they are an extra resource.

Given the age of an awful lot of the Maths teachers I know they might well be fwiw.

Yes, I know we need mathmos and scientists. This all strikes me as trying to get something as cheaply as possible - get em in and get em in front of kids and see what sticks?

Fwiw I'm not a huge fan of GTP or SCITT schemes either - there's too often the assumotion that people can be given classes and told to get on with it.

 

[kabbes]

Depends.

Is it my kids they're teaching in those first couple of years?

Depends. Is the alternative for your kids to have no teacher at all, or a teacher from another subject shoehorned in? If so then yeah, maybe. If not then no, the new guy can sit in the corner for six months and watch the expert at work.

Given the age of an awful lot of the Maths teachers I know they might well be fwiw.

So... doubly important to bring in a new generation then?

Yes, I know we need mathmos and scientists. This all strikes me as trying to get something as cheaply as possible - get em in and get em in front of kids and see what sticks?

Maybe. It's a pragmatic approach, certainly.

I have a maths degree. I work in finance. I spend a lot of time training people of all levels and abilities on a real range of technical levels. I'm pretty sure that I could get to a level where I could teach maths to a class of kids -- particularly the pre-GCSE kids -- very quickly indeed. Frankly, you'd prefer for your kids to have me than most of the maths teachers I've come across.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Fwiw I'm not a huge fan of GTP or SCITT schemes either - there's too often the assumotion that people can be given classes and told to get on with it.

same is true on the PGCE - a couple of weeks of workshops, then just thrown in.

My mum was amazed when I told her; she said when she did her B.Ed in the mid 70s, on the first placement you just had to work with groups of kids and get to know the class, then back to Uni, and then in the final term of the first year was the first time you actually had to teach the whole class.

 

[_angel_]

What's better in the long run though? That we continue with an acute shortage of maths teachers or that we make this relatively small compromise to get maths teachers in the door and try to work with it until they gain the year or two's experience that will bring them up to the old standard? It's not like the new maths teachers are replacing the old ones -- they are an extra resource. They could even simply shadow the existing maths teachers for six months for no extra use of those existing teachers' resource.

It's just pragmatism. You have a lot of people with maths (and science) degrees, who know a lot about maths and who are currently and possibly temporarily out of work and looking for a new direction. You want to grab them quick before they settle into some other financial role. They probably can't afford to take years out of their earnings to go down the traditional route, but they might consider it if you can make the path easy enough.

Not sure. You may get some people who are absolute naturals and then you might have some total disasters. I think you need to give teachers a bit longer before feeding them to the lions so to speak!

You could potentially be gambling with kids education. We had a hopeless student history teacher for part of our A level course, and nothing she ever *taught* us made any sense to me at all, ever (and I was good at History!!)

Maybe there needs to be a general encouragement of Maths and science at school so there are more people willing to do it at A level, never mind decide to go on and teach it??

Really, why shorten an already short PGCE down to six months? Is this going to set a precedent -- what about shortening it further??

It's meant to be training the teachers of the future, it's not long enough.

 

[bluestreak]

Unheard of to have a uniform in primary school? Nope, not in Leeds and it wasn't a 'faith school'. We also had a uniform at middle school, altho you got a bit of choice in what to wear. Oddly, we didn't have a uniform at high school, but that was unusual.

Maybe you mean the return to shirt and tie wearing -- we certainly didn't have to wear them, just as long as we wore the right school 'colours'.

Same here. My school in Ilford had uniforms at infants and primary level, and i'm 30. not a faith school, just a school.

 

[brix]

I have this *mad* idea where teachers are valued, and not blamed for all of society's ills, and where they're not driven out of the profession by ridiculous amounts of paperwork and new government initiatives. Perhaps then we wouldn't have a shortage of teachers because people would want to do the job in the first place.

Just a thought.

 

[bluestreak]

I have this *mad* idea where teachers are valued, and not blamed for all of society's ills, and where they're not driven out of the profession by ridiculous amounts of paperwork and new government initiatives. Perhaps then we wouldn't have a shortage of teachers because people would want to do the job in the first place.

Just a thought.

What are you, some sort of communist?

 

[brix]

What are you, some sort of communist?

Well, I'd vote 'Old Labour' if I could. Guess that makes me a commie nowadays

 

[scifisam]

I'll be more specific, then - in my area it was unheard of for primary schoolkids to wear uniform.

RD, do the little kids ever grab your tie?

 

[Sweet FA]

I have this *mad* idea where teachers are valued, and not blamed for all of society's ills, and where they're not driven out of the profession by ridiculous amounts of paperwork and new government initiatives. Perhaps then we wouldn't have a shortage of teachers because people would want to do the job in the first place.

Just a thought.

*calls men in white coats, loads tranq gun*

Good work on getting through it RD. I did it whilst looking after a 2 year old - hard work indeed. If you need any stuff (can't think what but maybe assignment stuff, lesson plans etc?), pm me.

Can I be the first to say; wait until your NQT year? (If I had a quid for the number of urbanites who posted that at me last year, I'd have, well about 4 quid).

Are there many other male primary teachers up there then? There's pretty much none teaching KS1 down here (Southampton).

 

[scifisam]

*calls men in white coats, loads tranq gun*

Good work on getting through it RD. I did it whilst looking after a 2 year old - hard work indeed. If you need any stuff (can't think what but maybe assignment stuff, lesson plans etc?), pm me.

Can I be the first to say; wait until your NQT year? (If I had a quid for the number of urbanites who posted that at me last year, I'd have, well about 4 quid).
Are there many other male primary teachers up there then? There's pretty much none teaching KS1 down here (Southampton).

I did it while being a single parent to a 7-year-old with mild autism.

My NQT year was absolute hell - much, much harder than my PGCE - but that was partly because the school I worked at was shit. It's easier now, but a lot of that's to do with working part-time. Still, lots of people do say that the second year or teaching's better, or at least the third and subsequent years.

 

[Sweet FA]

I did it while being a single parent to a 7-year-old with mild autism.

OK, you win

My NQT year was absolute hell - much, much harder than my PGCE - but that was partly because the school I worked at was shit

It's killing me tbh. School's looking at a notice to improve, not hit floor targets for 6 years yadda yadda yadda. Fucking SATs start on Monday too. Year 2 for an NQT...what was I thinking?

Still, lots of people do say that the second year or teaching's better

*crosses fingers*

Ahem.

Anyway RD, you're absolutely doing the right thing

 

[scifisam]

OK, you win

Of course, at least with a school-aged child you don't have to pay for as much childcare.

It's killing me tbh. School's looking at a notice to improve, not hit floor targets for 6 years yadda yadda yadda. Fucking SATs start on Monday too. Year 2 for an NQT...what was I thinking?


*crosses fingers*

Ahem.

Anyway RD, you're absolutely doing the right thing

They gave a SATs year group to an NQT? That's crazy!

I thought SATS were in May?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I'll be more specific, then - in my area it was unheard of for primary schoolkids to wear uniform.

RD, do the little kids ever grab your tie?

Not that I've noticed...

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Are there many other male primary teachers up there then? There's pretty much none teaching KS1 down here (Southampton).

I've been in 4 schools so far (one for pre-course lesson observations last summer, one for first placement, one for the 'diversity placement', and one for placement 2) and I think in total there have been about 5 male teachers.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Anyway RD, you're absolutely doing the right thing

I'm just thinking of the salaries they pay at the British School of Shanghai (with an easier workload into the bargain)

 

[catinthehat]

you should wear suits jackets with leather patches on the elbows like my old maths teacher. and grow a beard. the kids love that.

Im a female social science lecturer - thats our style as well - with some dangly earings to indicate that we are ladies.