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Should they teach basic finance at school?

Dowie

Well-Known Member
I mean we've got things like home economics and CDT/D&T or whatever they are calling woodwork etc.. these days which both teach very practical non academic skills useful to just about anyone throughout the rest of their life.

But in addition to being able to bake a cake, cook a meal, wire a plug and do some basic joinery I reckon that it is increasingly important that kids get at least some lessons devoted to finance.

Lots of people don't understand how money is created or know much about inflation, interest rates etc..

A very worrying number of people are in too much debt without knowing how to deal with it (far too many companies seem to be getting set up in order to take advantage of this) and people don't seem to take much notice of things like the APR on a credit card or fully understand its implications until it is too late. Credit card companies have been conning people with useless products like 'payment protection insurance' and there are far too many 'buy now pay later' type ads on TV.

Then there are products specifically aimed at people on lower incomes that really shouldn't be viable products - companies selling expensive desirable consumer products such as LCD TVs etc.. at what look to be affordable monthly payments when in reality they are selling an overpriced TV on credit at a silly APR and spreading the payments out over a long term. These companies only exist because the customers aren't really aware of how much they are being ripped off.

The Christmas hamper ones also annoy me, people don't really realise the implications of investing money in an unregulated company with a small balance sheet until one of them blows up and screws over a bunch of families right before Christmas. Perhaps they have been set up with good intentions, they are certainly not a good idea unless they can segregate the funds their customers have saved.

People on lower incomes are basically very vulnerable to getting screwed over and a good example is the sub prime crisis in the US - loads of people took out mortgages at low introductory rates at a time when interest rates were also low and didn't really realise what they were signing up to & whether they could afford it.

The main problem seems to be that people don't really realise they are being screwed until it is too late.

Edit - and of course that there are some cunts out there ready to take advantage.
 
We did economics and public affairs o level. It taught us the basic principles of financial markets and political influence, and most importantly, how intrinsically these issues are interlinked. I think we may have been the last of those who were given any objective indication that balls-and-all property-based inflation may have negative impacts on social cohesion, or basically serve to increase the likelihood of getting jacked innit.
 
They should teach personal finance yes.To everyone.
As for business/studied statistics and economics those should be for those who are interested
 
Have always thought that they should do this........right from the basics about bank accounts, how loans/credit cards work etc, how to work out your personal budget/tax etc.........
 
I asked about this when I was at school and was told it wasn't necessary as my husband would do all that for me :D
 
We didn't get taught anything like this at all at school. I suppose it comes under maths esp percentages. And a scary number of people don't get them.
 
Is the question should we teach young people about predatory lending and the corrupt and parasitical nature of financial capital - then yes, we should. But i suspect the opposite side are far too entrneched already with their neutral 'and who would like to know how to run a business?' approach. And where to stop once you've started pointing out the flaws in the system?
 
I think this is now being introduced in secondaries. I do think it's a good idea, but I don't know how well it'll be taught or how much kids will pay attention to it. I worry that too many people really don't understand credit, as has been suggested by other posters - that they don't realise how much over the odds they're paying for the privilege.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
That is one scary out of date school. :eek: :eek:

I'm 42 and it was an all girls grammar school :D

I told the careers teacher I wanted to be a rescue pilot and she said women would never be pilots because they have hormones. I also had to write an essay on how not to become a shop girl.
 
mentalchik said:
Have always thought that they should do this........right from the basics about bank accounts, how loans/credit cards work etc, how to work out your personal budget/tax etc.........

This is all covered under basic maths... Though I think it should be drilled into kids these days that if they don't understand this, they will come unstuck...
 
madzone said:
I'm 42 and it was an all girls grammar school :D

I told the careers teacher I wanted to be a rescue pilot and she said women would never be pilots because they have hormones. I also had to write an essay on how not to become a shop girl.

Fuck me your younger than me and you got that sort of attitude peddled at you. Eeek!

This story gives the lie to the belief that grammar schools are all they are cracked up to be.
 
jæd said:
This is all covered under basic maths... Though I think it should be drilled into kids these days that if they don't understand this, they will come unstuck...

It's not presented as budgetting though is it? Maybe if kids thought it bore some kind of relevance to their adult lives they may pay attention.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Fuck me your younger than me and you got that sort of attitude peddled at you. Eeek!

This story gives the lie to the belief that grammar schools are all they are cracked up to be.

It was nearly 30 yrs ago though
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Fuck me your younger than me and you got that sort of attitude peddled at you. Eeek!

This story gives the lie to the belief that grammar schools are all they are cracked up to be.

I'm younger and we had a head of year slyly dissuade girls from taking sciences by telling them needlework or childcare would be 'more up their street'.

Didn't get the snobbish shite tho.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
This story gives the lie to the belief that grammar schools are all they are cracked up to be.
Well, I went to a grammar school that I started at 18 years ago and I can assure you I wasn't educated like that! :D
 
Cloo said:
Well, I went to a grammar school that I started at 18 years ago and I can assure you I wasn't educated like that! :D

Very true. But it wasn't THAT long ago and women were still being told 'leave the finances to your husband' I went to a east london comp and was introduced to so many different things that it still surprises me now
 
_angel_ said:
I'm younger and we had a head of year slyly dissuade girls from taking sciences by telling them needlework or childcare would be 'more up their street'.

Didn't get the snobbish shite tho.


In my school they had a policy of boys doing needlework and girls doing metalwork for at least a term each. I made an apron in needlework.

IIRC it was the anal shallow nerds who aspired to be bank clerks who did business studies though.
 
madzone said:
It's not presented as budgetting though is it? Maybe if kids thought it bore some kind of relevance to their adult lives they may pay attention.

Thinking back I think we had at least one maths lesson that concentrated on Maths in a living situation, and I think that included stuff like working out budgets, interest, and timetables. (Back before we had online booking systems working out the best route for you)

I'm surprised this isn't still done.
 
jæd said:
Thinking back I think we had at least one maths lesson that concentrated on Maths in a living situation, and I think that included stuff like working out budgets, interest, and timetables. (Back before we had online booking systems working out the best route for you)

I'm surprised this isn't still done.

I think many people still don't think of basic 'money in money out' budgetting as maths. As part of home economics we had to work out weekly food budgets but that's because we were the girls who were assumed to become housewives - the clever gilrs did latin :rolleyes:
 
I was taught nothing about financing or tax etc, and have had to pick it up from the media and my family. I actually use accountants for my tax since last year, as I have a rented property and it's worth the fee a) to be assured it's right and b) because the IR goes straight to them with any queries and I don't have to deal with it!

That said, the online self-assessment tool is pretty good - I used that before. But I do worry that tonnes of people have absolutely no idea what to do - if I didn't have my family know-how and then got a tax return form sent to me with the expectation to fill it in, I'd have been utterly clueless, so surely a lot of people are getting stung because they don't know how or believe they need to do their return.
 
Budgets and things like APR are part of the maths syllabus.

I think that there should be some very elementary economics as part of the national curriculum. Things like where inflation comes from, why the government might seek to control it, what interest rates are and how inflation is linked to interest rates. They should do this at the most surface level of understanding -- no particular need to delve any deeper into it than a Year 8 science course delves into physics.

The reason I think this should be done is that we are all very affected by interest rates and inflation -- when people are looking at things like mortgages and their cost of living, an understanding of these economic ideas is very helpful.
 
I'm younger and we had a head of year slyly dissuade girls from taking sciences by telling them needlework or childcare would be 'more up their street'.

At my school some of my friends wanted to do the Child Development GCSE, but they were basically forced to do Biology instead, because child development was for the girls from the estate who were likely to leave school at 16 and get pregnant, and not for the "clever" girls who should go to university :rolleyes:
 
kabbes said:
Budgets and things like APR are part of the maths syllabus.

I think that there should be some very elementary economics as part of the national curriculum. Things like where inflation comes from, why the government might seek to control it, what interest rates are and how inflation is linked to interest rates. They should do this at the most surface level of understanding -- no particular need to delve any deeper into it than a Year 8 science course delves into physics.

The reason I think this should be done is that we are all very affected by interest rates and inflation -- when people are looking at things like mortgages and their cost of living, an understanding of these economic ideas is very helpful.

That's state propoganda then bascially. Fed to kids.
 
madzone said:
It's not presented as budgetting though is it? Maybe if kids thought it bore some kind of relevance to their adult lives they may pay attention.
I don't know if maths has changed since we did it but why not work real life examples into the maths class.
Q1. A 60" plasma TV costs £1045. The shop has a 30% off sale how much would the TV cost?

Q2. The shop offers you a store card with an APR of 29.6% to buy the TV on. How much including interest would you pay for the TV?

It might get the kids interested and see what the point of maths is.
 
WouldBe said:
I don't know if maths has changed since we did it but why not work real life examples into the maths class.
Q1. A 60" plasma TV costs £1045. The shop has a 30% off sale how much would the TV cost?

I wouldn't get Plasma, I'd get LCD... And TBH, if they're knocking Plasma ones at £700, thats not a shop with a convincing business model...

WouldBe said:
Q2. The shop offers you a store card with an APR of 29.6% to buy the TV on. How much including interest would you pay for the TV?

Why, bother when you can get a Plasma screen for £ 700 odd... :D
 
butchersapron said:
Is the question should we teach young people about predatory lending and the corrupt and parasitical nature of financial capital - then yes, we should. But i suspect the opposite side are far too entrneched already with their neutral 'and who would like to know how to run a business?' approach. And where to stop once you've started pointing out the flaws in the system?


Quite.

There are lots of things that a proper education should contain, but much of it is counterintuitive to the scumbags who rule us. Remember, they don't want people educated too much, cos then they're no good as bean-counters and paper-shufflers. Our economic system is built on and RELIES on their (and your) debt, why would they teach people how to avoid it FFS.
 
madzone said:
I asked about this when I was at school and was told it wasn't necessary as my husband would do all that for me :D

Not that many years back if a woman wanted to open her own bank account (shock, horror, end of civilisation etc etc) she had to get her husbands permission.... :eek:
 
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