should the police be armed

[oi2002]

No and I say that as a gun nut with an 870 under the bed and a AKM hanging on the wall. The UK is very lucky to still be a largely disarmed society. The residents are not as civilised Swiss and that includes the Police.

Incidentally according to this the tooled up Swiss with a population of 6 million had a total 40 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm while the rough and tumble 60 million strong UK only had 62. Per capita Swiss gun murder rates are about the same as the socially similar Canada or macho Bulgaria, almost double the rate of Germany, a third of US rates, but a mere 7th of the really wild "you lookin at me" S.Africa.

 

[spikey_r]

it's far from a knee-jerk reaction. simple fact is; a trained and qualified 'shot' (with his/her gat fastened to their body in case it should be be dropped) is going to be able to provide the 'crim' with the thought "do i go tooled up and risk a double-tap by any OB who are in the vicinity? or rethink "what i'm about to do could go badly wrong?"

there will still be those who will want to take the risk, but give plod the ability to reply in kind (so to speak)

 

[winjer]

The reason is, criminals know that shooting a cop usually means an instant death sentence, delivered without trial by the dead cop's brother officers.

Speaking of which, I'm surprised not to spot any mention of this muppetry:

"Such an extreme act of pure evil can only be met by the most extreme of responses - and that can only be death," he told the News of the World. [...] If the death penalty was not imposed then "wrong really has finally totally triumphed over right and all civilised society, all we hold dear, is the loser," he added. He said there must be "massive safeguards" to make sure there were no miscarriages of justice in imposing the death penalty. "But those who can incontrovertibly be proved to have murdered a police officer should be killed," he said. [...] "I know now that capital punishment is the only major way left for the majority of right-thinking people to fight against the minority of monsters in our midst. "I'm just so sorry yet another brave police officer has had to be murdered before it happens."
(source)

 

[rich!]

alt.tasteless

There's a higher suicide rate among police than in the general populace as well so giving them all guns would result in more dead coppers rather than less.

Or we could give them explosives? then we could have our own ...

what?

Oh. *Sorry*.

Well, if it took out otherwise-unaccountable villains (like, say, John Random Politician), and they were going anyway, wouldn't it be a valid use for it in the context of a policing strategy?

No?

whoops.

 

[rich!]

As you know, most if not all police officers in NA are armed, but the incidence of criminals shooting cops is low. The reason is, criminals know that shooting a cop usually means an instant death sentence, delivered without trial by the dead cop's brother officers.

so, if you think you might have to shoot, you bring heavy automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers?

after all, if they're going to try to kill you, you come ready to remove all obstacles?


give me a police-force that's outgunned by a starter pistol, but insanely good at tracking and early-morning raids.

 

[detective-boy]

Speaking of which, I'm surprised not to spot any mention of this muppetry:

That'll be the John Stevens who was against the death penalty whilst still serving, will it?

Although this latest murder is tragic and upsetting, it really is no different in any significant way from those which have gone before and those which will undoubtedly follow. In no way is it of such significance as to merit a change in the law.

Stevens should know better than to kow-tow to his media paymasters and either write what they bid or allow them to ghost-write what they like under his byeline. He is damaging policing in this current role in my opinion. He has an awful lot of experience and he could be a huge power for good ... but the moment I saw he'd taken the NoW shilling I knew it would end in tears.

(His nickname at the Yard was King George by the way. As in "The Madness of ...")

 

[Epicurus]

Incidentally according to this the tooled up Swiss with a population of 6 million had a total 40 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm while the rough and tumble 60 million strong UK only had 62. Per capita Swiss gun murder rates are about the same as the socially similar Canada or macho Bulgaria, almost double the rate of Germany, a third of US rates, but a mere 7th of the really wild "you lookin at me" S.Africa.

Thanks for that I was just going off to look and see if bugsy7 was right; but I think they put the question make there to show they were just guessing and didn’t know for sure.

My understanding (only from what I have read) is that countries that have an armed police force have more gun crime that those that don’t.

I have never heard a gun shot in the UK and I don’t think many people would have, where I grew up I heard gun shots every couple of hours, kids walking to school often have to hide when the guns start firing.

I can see no evidence that arming the police will reduce the number of guns used by criminals.

 

[tobyjug]

I can see no evidence that arming the police will reduce the number of guns used by criminals.

It certainly would not reduce the number of guns available to criminals. (2-4 million according to the Cullen report. This was before the number of guns coming in from the former Soviet Union)

 

[Streathamite]

The reason is, criminals know that shooting a cop usually means an instant death sentence, delivered without trial by the dead cop's brother officers.

do you REALLY think we want Judge Dredd-style instant justice on our streets? de menezes was bad enough!

 

[Dilzybhoy]

Tougher gun laws. Sentences too.

I think that's gonna happen now anyway.
If I had a gun then I would be looking to get rid of it sharpish 'cos there gonna hammer people for gun crime now.
Coppers having guns wouldn't make me want to do that.
Maybe they should do a amnesty thing to hand in your guns.


sideline... Look who voted yes knee-jerk option. "sinnfeingangsta" heh heh heh.

 

[pbman]

as a stupid kneejerk response to the killing of the cop in bradford?

May as well, you have a long history of kneejerk responses.

Last time you stold eveyones legal handguns, even thou the gov't promised never to do that when they were registered.

 

[nino_savatte]

May as well, you have a long history of kneejerk responses.

Last time you stold eveyones legal handguns, even thou the gov't promised never to do that when they were registered.

What????????

 

[Streathamite]

May as well, you have a long history of kneejerk responses.

Last time you stold eveyones legal handguns, even thou the gov't promised never to do that when they were registered.

what the FAAAARK are you on about?????
jeezuz, lay off the drugs/bottle/whatever leadhead, that was surreal.

 

[dylanredefined]

Its pretty simple to deal with replica weapons .Just treat as real so threatning someone with one 10yrs in nick .Waveing it around in public 5yrs.
those people who want them and those airsoft guns can still run around just
not in public.
I though the super soakers in cornwall got filled with bleach or urine ?I know the cops went round one year and confiscated the lot after complaints.

 

[axomoxia]

It is already an offence posses a replica firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. Came in with the Antisocial Behavour act in '03 (the same bit that put the brococks under sec. 5).

 

[Dissident Junk]

I think it comes down to culture. In the country I am in at the mo, every policeman carries a massive gun and there is next to no gun crime. I think this is due to a cultural attitude where the police are seen to be the first line of defence for the people should another country invade.

Likewise, quite a lot of civilians have hunting rifles, but there is hardly ever an accident or offence committed with a firearm.

 

[tobyjug]

I though the super soakers in cornwall got filled with bleach or urine ?I know the cops went round one year and confiscated the lot after complaints.

They confiscate any they see now, during the Run To The Sun and have done so for several years now. (One of the Radio Cornwall presenters still had the paint stripped off his car this year by whatever one idiot had in a supersoaker)

 

[In Bloom]

Tougher gun laws. Sentences too.
I think that's gonna happen now anyway.
If I had a gun then I would be looking to get rid of it sharpish 'cos there gonna hammer people for gun crime now.
Coppers having guns wouldn't make me want to do that.
Maybe they should do a amnesty thing to hand in your guns.


sideline... Look who voted yes knee-jerk option. "sinnfeingangsta" heh heh heh.

Beau, BlackSpecs, districtline, dylanredefined, pdxm, sinnfeingangsta, smash_g8, spikey_r, Squatticus

You know, I suspect some people aren't taking this poll entirely seriously...

 

[kasheem]

Yes, arm the cops and even the score with the criminals a bit. We're the only country maybe in the world with this lunatic policy of unarmed police.

There's no reason to continue with it, out of 'tradition' or any other bullshit you come up with. The only good reason for opposing armament is that you want more cops to get shot. On this loony left forum I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reasoning some of you are taking.

 

[Epicurus]

Yes, arm the cops and even the score with the criminals a bit. We're the only country maybe in the world with this lunatic policy of unarmed police.

There's no reason to continue with it, out of 'tradition' or any other bullshit you come up with. The only good reason for opposing armament is that you want more cops to get shot. On this loony left forum I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reasoning some of you are taking.

Good Morning Kasheem, can I thank you for making me laugh on such a cold day, your logic is really funny

 

[Red Faction]

i wouldnt be in favour of arming all police,
i would advocate much tougher gun laws, and gun amnesties
(as they did after the dunblaine tragedy?)
as it is
all police carry a truncheon and CS gas right?

surely that should be sufficient in the meantime

 

[tobyjug]

as it is
all police carry a truncheon and CS gas right?

Not CS gas, usually pepper spray. (Although this does vary from force to force).

 

[detective-boy]

Not CS gas, usually pepper spray. (Although this does vary from force to force).

Just to correct another "tobyjug fact" - most (41 of 43 in 2001) UK forces have CS spray (it is an aerosol type solution of CS rather than the gas form). Some have trialled other forms of spray, including synthetic pepper spray (Sussex Police).

 

[HarrisonSlade]

The Police don't even want to be armed. Many of them are wary of each other, and of the rise in gun crime if such action was taken.

 

[tobyjug]

Just to correct another "tobyjug fact" - most (41 of 43 in 2001) UK forces have CS spray (it is an aerosol type solution of CS rather than the gas form). Some have trialled other forms of spray, including synthetic pepper spray (Sussex Police).

If you correct something please supply a reference. I would also point out 2001 is not now. There are some misgivings about CS and pepper spray is safer.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

If you correct something please supply a reference.

lol

 

[tobyjug]

lol

Laugh away, CS is bloody dangerous in a confined space and a fire hazard when in dries on clothing/furniture walls ect. A number of police forces no longer use CS spray as a defence for officers, they have changed to pepper spray.
Some forces never have used CS for the same reasons.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Laugh away, CS is bloody dangerous in a confined space

No it isn't tobes, that's why the forces use it in gas houses for NBC training.

 

[tobyjug]

No it isn't tobes, that's why the forces use it in gas houses for NBC training.

Never heard of WACO or this IPCC report:-
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/safer_restraint_june2003.pdf
CS spray
CS spray was introduced in 1996 in the hope that it would reduce the need to use
batons. So far, this does not appear to be the case although the number of assaults
against police officers has fallen.
Indeed, CS spray itself is the subject of numerous assault complaints alleging
excessive and/or unjustified use – the PCA investigated 409 cases in 2000/01.
Although many forces do not monitor how often their officers use CS spray, PCA
research suggests that one in 20 uses leads to a complaint. The year 2000/01 also
saw the first case of an officer being convicted and imprisoned for causing injury by
excessive and unjustified use of CS spray.
CS spray featured in a small number of restraint-related deaths although there is no
evidence to suggest that it was the direct cause of death.
Moreover, CS spray is often ineffective on people with mental health problems or
people who have been drinking alcohol and it is more dangerous when used at short
range. Some forces are now looking at alternatives such as synthetic pepper sprays.

 

[Dilzybhoy]

They used a tazor in Wishaw last week.

Don't know much about what happened 'cept they cordoned off the petrol station (locus ) like it was a murder inquiry.
At least they are, or at least appear to be, taking it seriously.

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