Should the Holocaust justify Israels actions?

[ZAMB]

Re: ZAMB'S last comment
Let's not forget Japanese War Criminals, such as the staff of Unit 731, who carried out, in some cases, very gruesome experiments involving Bio Warfare agents, such as Anthrax & Bubonic Plague, on U.S Prisoners Of War, as well as the native Chinese population, during World War II (in the Chinese case, well before).
They managed to escape any war crimes trial, by trading their knowledge of said weapons, including production techniques, to the U.S Army, for immunity from prosecution....

I didn't forget about it - I left it out because I thought the OP was specifically about the Nazis. I could hardly forget it - my father was in the RAF, captured by the Japanese, and was physically and mentally destroyed by years in their "care". The thought of those bastards getting off scot free makes me sick.

 

[Wookster]

Who says israel doesn't target civilians.

If this isn't targetting civilians then what is:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1616665.ece

Take them to the Hague!!!

 

[ZAMB]

Who says israel doesn't target civilians.

If this isn't targetting civilians then what is:

This is a real horror story - the cynical name given to the operation 'Locked Kindergarten' says a lot, I think. Nothing can justify the murder of children like this - NOTHING!!!!

The Twilight Zone / The boy who was buried twice

By Gideon Levy

Abdullah a-Zakh identified his son's body by the belt. The shoes and socks also looked familiar, irrefutable proof that he had lost his son. In the morgue of Shifa Hospital, after hours of searching, he found the bottom part of the boy's body. The next day, when Operation "Gan Na'ul" - "Locked Kindergarten" - ended and the Israel Defense Forces exited the Saja'iya neighborhood of Gaza, leaving behind 22 dead and large-scale destruction, the other body parts were found.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/760138.html

 

[Wookster]

This is a real horror story - the cynical name given to the operation 'Locked Kindergarten' says a lot, I think. Nothing can justify the murder of children like this - NOTHING!!!!

come on Rach, how do you justify this???

 

[ZAMB]

come on Rach, how do you justify this???

How can you possibly justify any of these

Names of children under the age of 18 killed during the operations mounted by the Israeli military in Gaza since 25 June, according to the Palestinian Centre of Human Rights

Bara Nasser Habib, 3 (hit by shrapnel to the head and body, Gaza City, 26 July)
Shahed Saleh Al-Sheikh Eid, 3 days old (bled to death after airstrike, Al-Shouka, 4 August)
Rajaa Salam Abu Shaban, 3 (died of fractured skull in air raid, Gaza City, 9 August)
Jihad Selmi Abu Snaima, 14 (killed by a shell, Al-Shoukha, 10 september)
Khaled Nidal Wahba, 15 months (died of wounds from an airstrike, 10 July)
Rawan Farid Hajjaj, 6 (killed with his mother and sister in an airstrike, Gaza City, 8 July)
Anwar Ismail Abdul Ghani Atallah, 12 (shot in the head, Erez, 5 July)
Shadi Yousef Omar 16 (shot in the chest by IDF, Beit Lahya, 7 July)
Mahfouth Farid Nuseir, 16 (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Ahmad Ghalib Abu Amsha, 16, (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Ahmad Fathi Shabat, 16 (killed by missile while playing football, Beit Hanoun, 11 July)
Walid Mahmoud El-Zeinati, 12 (died of shrapnel wounds, Gaza City, 11 July)
Basma Salmeya, 16 (killed in Israeli airstrike, 12 July, Jabalia)
Somaya Salmeya, 17 (killed in Israeli airstrike, 12 July, Jabalia)
Aya Salmeya, 9 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Yehya Salmeya, 10 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Nasr Salmeya, 7 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Huda Salmeya, 13 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Eman Salmeya, 12 (killed in Israeli airstrike, Jabalia, 12 July)
Raji Omar Jaber Daifallah, 16 (died of shrapnel wounds from missile, Gaza City, 13 July)
Ali Kamel Al-Najjar, 16 (killed by Israeli tank shell, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 19 July)
Ahmed Ali Al-Na'ami, 16 (killed by Israeli tank shell, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 19 July)
Ahmed Rawhi Abu Abdu, 14 (killed by drone missile, Al Nusairat refugee camp, 19 July)
Mohammed 'awad Muhra, 14 (killed by Israeli bullet to the chest, Al-Maghazi refugee camp, 20 July)
Fadwa Faisal Al-'arrouqi, 13 (died from shrapnel wounds, Gaza City, 20 July)
Saleh Ibrahim Nasser, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 24 July)
Khitam Mohammed Rebhi Tayeh, 11 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 24 July)
Ashraf 'abdullah 'awad Abu Zaher, 14 (shot in the back, Khan Younis, 25 July)
Nahid Mohammed Fawzi Al-Shanbari, 16 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 31 July)
'aaref Ahmed Abu Qaida, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Beit Hanoun, 1 August)
Anis Salem Abu Awad, 12 (killed by airstike, Al-Shouka, 2 August)
Ammar Rajaa Al-Natour, 17 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Kifah Rajaa Al-Natour, 15 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Ibrahim Suleiman Al-Rumailat, 13 (killed by drone missile, Al Shouka, 5 August)
Ahmed Yousef 'abed 'aashour, 13 (killed by missile fire, Beit Hanoun, 14 August)
Mohammed 'abdullah Al-Ziq, 14 (killed by drone missile, Gaza City, 29 August)
Nidal 'abdul 'aziz Al-Dahdouh, 14 (killed by rifle fire, Gaza City, 30 August)
Jihad Selmi Abu Snaima, 14 (killed by artillery fire, Rafah, 10 September)

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1619227.ece

 

[TomUS]

How can you possibly justify any of these


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1619227.ece

Of course they cannot be justified. Just as the victims of Palestinian suicide bombers cannot be justified. So what's your point?

The holochaust is no justification for Israel's behavior toward the Palestinians. It should however be taken into account when evaluating Israeli policy. The experience of Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis is no justification for the bombings of Israeli busses & restraunts. It should however be taken into account when evaluating the actions of Palestinians against Israeli civillians.

I lived in Jerusalem for a couple months in early 2000, just before the 2nd intefada broke out. Even then Israelis were living under a state of siege, as they have during their entire history. If a package was found on the street, the cops would rope it off & investigate whether it was a bomb. The people in the crowd said "this happens all the time." Your packs & stuff were searched constantly when entering any major business or institution.

Most Israelis live in a state of constant fear, as I'm sure most Palestinians do. If my ancestors had suffered like the Jews have, I think I'd be pretty determined that anyone who threatened my people's existence would be smashed. The holochaust & the other atrocities against Jews are in the minds if Israelis & Jews in general all the time. Not really too hard to understand is it?

 

[nino_savatte]

Most Israelis live in a state of constant fear

Most Americans live in a constant state of fear, in case you hadn't noticed.

As Leon says in the film Blade Runner, "It's painful to live in fear". If it hurts that much, end it.

 

[TomUS]

Most Americans live in a constant state of fear, in case you hadn't noticed.

As Leon says in the film Blade Runner, "It's painful to live in fear". If it hurts that much, end it.

Yea, I guess all Israelis, Palestinians & Americans should just comit suicide. That would end it.

 

[Blagsta]

If a package was found on the street, the cops would rope it off & investigate whether it was a bomb. The people in the crowd said "this happens all the time." Your packs & stuff were searched constantly when entering any major business or institution

Sounds like living in the UK.

 

[ZAMB]

If a package was found on the street, the cops would rope it off & investigate whether it was a bomb. The people in the crowd said "this happens all the time." Your packs & stuff were searched constantly when entering any major business or institution.

This was a regular occurence for more than 30 years in Northern Ireland - and to a lesser extent in the UK and Ireland. Nobody ever dropped bombs on our civilian population to teach them a lesson.

Most Israelis live in a state of constant fear, as I'm sure most Palestinians do. If my ancestors had suffered like the Jews have, I think I'd be pretty determined that anyone who threatened my people's existence would be smashed. The holochaust & the other atrocities against Jews are in the minds if Israelis & Jews in general all the time. Not really too hard to understand is it?

This is the classic child abuser's argument - don't blame me, I was abused myself - or in this case, more likely - my ancestors were abused. The Palestinians were NOT responsible for the holocaust, and shouldn't be abandoned by the rest of the world to pay the bloody price for it. I find it very hard to understand - revenge solves nothing but to keep the cycle of hatred going - but even less understandable is revenge against people who were innocent of the crime in the first place.

The Palestine solution was a convenient answer to the problem of what to do with the both victims of the Nazis and those Jews who thad been displaced by WW2. It was a quick fix which disrespected both the victims of the holocaust, who deserved more emotional support and help to return to their homes, as many of them wanted - and it was also disrespectful to the people of Palestine. But it saved the parties actually involved in the war from having to take any real consequences for the aftermath and cleaning up the mess.

During the past 50 years, the international community has repeatedly called for a resolution to the refugee problem. The most important and explicit support for the rights of Palestinian refugees is UN resolution 194 signed in 1948. Resolution 194 was adopted only six months before Israel's admission as a member of the United Nations (GA Resolution 273, 11 May 1949). Israel's admission was conditioned by an Israeli commitment to carry out the obligations under the UN charter and United Nation resolutions, including Resolution 194. (xi)

According to Paragraph 11 of the resolution, recognition of the refugees' right of return to their homes is stated as follows: "Refugees who wish to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practical date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to, property which under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the governments or authorities responsible."

Since 1949, Resolution 194 has been reaffirmed more than 110 times by the General Assembly. (xii)

A general support for the concept of refugee rights is found in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 13: "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." (xiii)

Why is Israel still allowed in the UN anyway? They got in conditionally - they have been asked over 110 times to fulfil that condition and have failed to do so. There is a double standard in this whole situation, in both ethics and actions, and people try to excuse it with the holocaust. What about the millions of Palestinian refugees created since WW2 who just want to return home? The huge number of deaths too which are largely ignored by our media?

The UK and the international community let down the people of Palestine after WW2 - and they are still letting them down today.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yea, I guess all Israelis, Palestinians & Americans should just comit suicide. That would end it.

Now there's a thought But seriously, why must you be so fatalistic? "All Israelis, Palestinians & Americans" or just the ones who like to kill?

 

[nino_savatte]

Sounds like living in the UK.

Aye, still no litter bins in the tube stations.

 

[TomUS]

Now there's a thought But seriously, why must you be so fatalistic? "All Israelis, Palestinians & Americans" or just the ones who like to kill?

Just the ones who like to kill would be fine.

 

[TomUS]

This is the classic child abuser's argument - don't blame me, I was abused myself - or in this case, more likely - my ancestors were abused. The Palestinians were NOT responsible for the holocaust, and shouldn't be abandoned by the rest of the world to pay the bloody price for it. I find it very hard to understand - revenge solves nothing but to keep the cycle of hatred going - but even less understandable is revenge against people who were innocent of the crime in the first place.

It has nothing to do with revenge. Nobody blames the Palestinians for the holocaust.

What about the millions of Palestinian refugees created since WW2 who just want to return home?

Even if this return were practical, you seriously expect the Jews of Israel to chance being a minority in a state dominated by Palestinians- People who cheer & pass out candy when an Israeli bus blows up?- People who elected a government dedicated to Israel's destruction? If I were an Israeli Jew, I'd fear that such a country would land me behind the barbed wire & in the ovens. Paying compensation could be part of a settlement, but the "right of return" is a noble but impossible goal.

 

[ZAMB]

Even if this return were practical, you seriously expect the Jews of Israel to chance being a minority in a state dominated by Palestinians- People who cheer & pass out candy when an Israeli bus blows up?- People who elected a government dedicated to Israel's destruction? If I were an Israeli Jew, I'd fear that such a country would land me behind the barbed wire & in the ovens. Paying compensation could be part of a settlement, but the "right of return" is a noble but impossible goal.

So they should not be allowed to return because it would inconvenience the invaders? That was hardly the message of the Geneva Convention, was it, or the repeated UN resolutions to which I have already referred?
If Israel wasn't dedicated to Palestine's destruction, and allowed the UN resolutions to be carried out, I do not think there would be any tolerance among Palestinians for suicide bombers etc. Most people just want peace and a "normal" life with some security from Israeli attacks. It hardly seems likely though unless the Israelis change their attitude to the Palestinians. See
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html

As for your reference to 'behind the barbed wire and in the ovens' that is just playing on the whole western holocaust guilt thing again - I have seen no suggestion that Palestinians want to start up concentration camps [or ovens for that matter]. There is more evidence that the Israelis want to wipe out the Palestinians [see link above]. If you look at their situation, with them being prisoners in their own country with very limited freedom of movement, you could say, and many do, that the Palestinians are the ones in the concentration camps [see the 'Gaza is a jail' thread] among others.
I have friends in Gaza, and look on the news from there in horror. Nothing said by Bushco or any of the Israeli apologists on this board justifies that on-going situation.

 

[TomUS]

So they should not be allowed to return because it would inconvenience the invaders?

I don't think it's a matter of inconvenience-more like a matter of survival. If you were an Israeli Jew, how would you feel about the possibility of living under a Hamas government? I'd fight like hell to prevent that. The only way to prevent that is for Israel to have a strong Jewish majority.

As far as the link you provided to the article listing the things Israeli leaders have said about the Palestinians, I'm sure there have been as many if not more statements by Arab leaders calling for the destruction of Israel & the slaughter of the Jews.

A couple years ago I saw an interview with Yassin (before Israel killed him), the "spiritual founder of Hamas" stating his position that all the Jews that arrived after 1948 have to leave. The rest can stay. To me that sounds like a threat to expel or kill millions of Jews.

 

[ZAMB]

It has nothing to do with revenge. Nobody blames the Palestinians for the holocaust.

You did use the holocaust to try to justify the ongoing abuse of Palestinians though. This seems to me to be the classic abuser's argument

The holochaust is no justification for Israel's behavior toward the Palestinians. It should however be taken into account when evaluating Israeli policy. The experience of Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis is no justification for the bombings of Israeli busses & restraunts. It should however be taken into account when evaluating the actions of Palestinians against Israeli civillians.

otherwise why should it be taken into account when evaluating Israeli policy?
There is in fact no valid argument for a zionist state in Palestine.

“Zionism’s ‘historical right’ to Palestine was neither historical nor a right. It was not historical inasmuch as it voided the two millennia of non-Jewish settlement in Palestine and the two millennia of Jewish settlement outside it. It was not a right, except in the Romantic ‘mysticism’ of ‘blood and soil’ and the Romantic ‘cult’ of ‘death, heroes and graves’... “The claim of Jewish ‘homelessness is founded on a cluster of assumptions that both negates the liberal idea of citizenship and duplicates the anti-Semitic one that the state belongs to the majority ethnic nation. In a word, the Zionist case for a Jewish state is as valid as the anti-Semitic case for an ethnic state that marginalizes Jews.”
Professor Norman Finkelstein, “Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict,”

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

 

[aylee]

The Holocaust may at least partially explain, but in no way justifies Israels oppression of the Palestinians over the past sixty years.

I don't even think it partly explains it. If anything, I would expect the unspeakable treatment of Jews in the second world war to lead the Israelis to treat people of different cultures and religions with the utmost respect.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: What is wrong with a working relationship with the Phalangists. Were/are they fascist? Pretty much fit the bill but remember back to the era in question and one finds at least 82 separate militias vying for premacy. Many making Phalangists look like innocent schoolboys. They were the government. Who better to deal with that the government of a sovereign nation?


We also had, as one our closest allies, the racist South Africans. Alliances are built upon shared or parallel objectives, not affinity. In this world there is no time for or point to picking and choosing such relationshipos based on moral outlooks.

Wookster: "Funny when UN Resolutions count when castigating Arab nations but now when they castigate Israel..." Funny that you should even question why Israel would even consider a NON-BINDING Resolution, authored by an avowed enemy who has not even recognised the fundamental premise in the Resolution that affirms Israel's Righ to Exist...Hmmm...Something to think about...

"Does Rach find it unfair that an American born Jew who has never stepped foot onto Israel has a greater right to live there than an Arab who has generations of family memebers in the area?" I could answer by asking you is it unfaiur that me, as man with thick roots in the city of Alleppo , Syria find it fair as a Jew from being prohibited y that nation's govt. from even crossing into Syria but will instead simly expolain the premise of Zionism a but better.

All natural born Jews [i.e. not first generation converts] share a deep genetic connection. This has been prov en time and time again. Since Israel has been esttablished, with International approval, as the homeland of the Jewish People, why should that Jew from America NOT be given precedence over abn Arab with at best, "a few generations," of family in the area?

Arabs are natives of Arabia. Jews of Judea. Judea is where? Arabia is where? Pretty simple really. Arabs have 14 nations and their [majorty of] cultural brethren have a total of 33 nations. Jews have bbut one. All nations in the Mid-East are modern inventions of the European powers but only Israel has a true historical imperative. Based on this information, who then has the better right to settle that land?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: What is wrong with a working relationship with the Phalangists. Were/are they fascist? Pretty much fit the bill but remember back to the era in question and one finds at least 82 separate militias vying for premacy. Many making Phalangists look like innocent schoolboys. They were the government. Who better to deal with that the government of a sovereign nation?

We also had, as one our closest allies, the racist South Africans. Alliances are built upon shared or parallel objectives, not affinity. In this world there is no time for or point to picking and choosing such relationshipos based on moral outlooks.

If you get into bed with a crocodile, you should expect to be eaten. With regards to Israel's "shared or parallel objectives" what might those be, precisely? All I can see is a shared philosophy based on ethnic supremacy (i.e. racism or, rather, extreme nationalism which always contains the element of racism as its motor).

 

[rachamim18]

Wookster: "Israel should go to the Hague for dropping millions of undetonated cluster bombs." Um, we never even had a million so cut the hyperbole. U nsubstantiated nonsense from a moron riding around with a Hezbollah translator. Tekll him to meet me at Metullah to take him on a tour of Galilee where we have 2000 Grads, undetinated, lying everywhere. Did anyone stop to consider the logistics needed to launch 1,000,000 shells?


ZAMB: "Operation Locked Kindergarten?" NEVER. ?That is pure, unadulterated nonsense. Has it occurred to you why no mainstream sites or media outlets have blown it wide open? It would quite literally be the story of the decade. The "Activists" who foam at the mouth seeking fodder for the Tribunal would be all over it....and....yes...NOTHING. I wonder why? Ha'aretz is heavily to the left, it is a vehivle to be used against Likud, NPR, ir anyone else right of Kadimah.

IF you allow a 14 year old to go to an armed confrontation between tanks and gun firing "Activists" you really ought to ask yourself who is to truly blame for the boy's death? Israel aims for the child? Not suprisingly you totally ignored the tunnel built under Karni Terminal. And people actually wonder why Israel curtails consumer goods there?

Wookster:"How does Rach justify the afore mentioned Operation?" Easy, see above.

Question for you: How do you justify HAMAS' refusal for the International Red Cross or Crescent from visiting with NCO Shalit?


ZAMB: All those kids names? Again, a child in our part of the world is someone under the age of 12 for a boy , 11 for a girl. For arguments sake lets change them to 80 and 90 respectively. Who is offering these figures? Which third party witnessed them and is available for investigatory purposes, as in authentic name and adresses? Any film? Any forensics? Any autopsies? In one of the moset denselyt populated spots on the planet, in one fot he most documented and recorded places on the planet...nopt a shred of proof exists to justify the accusation that Israel did this. Surely some were inadvertant coollateral damage but the vast majority got caughuup in some good old Gazastan revelries.

 

[rachamim18]

ZAMB: How are "Palestinian" being asked to pay the price for the Holocaust? Zionism with Israel as its final aim begain 1862 and in earnest by 1884. Your idea makes little sense.

You are also wrong about European Jews displaced by tghe event. The Brits rarely let ships sail unencumbered into Mandate ports under Arab pressure.

Yes, we were allowed into the UN "conditionally." You seem to be oblivious though to the whole package. Brush up a little and it should become clearer why exactly we are still there. Takes two to tango and we cannot be penalised for another nation reluctance.

Aylee: We do treat other cultures with the utmost respect. You might want to check us out on the democractic indexes and human rights indexes. Arabs from every nation in the region seek asylum with us over issues such as RFGM, Domestic Abuse, Slavery, Honour Killings, Abortions, and Homosexuality.

 

[rachamim18]

ZAMB: "Palestinian Right to Return." They are not allowed to retiurn because during the 49 Armistice they were offereed thast very option for a loyalty oath and most refused it, preferring languishing [for the most pat] in camps for decades. Those that refused were alos offered via UN arbitration [Yes Tom, I did not forget, just have not had time] fair market value for property abandoned.

Nino: "Shared or parallel objectives." In that paticualr case it was the ousting of the PLO from Lebanese soil. Secondary was the removal of the ever present Syrian threat from the Lebanese sphere. Third was to prop up the Gemayel clan so that Israel would have its much ballyhooed buffer zone and SLA clients without any static.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: "Shared or parallel objectives." In that paticualr case it was the ousting of the PLO from Lebanese soil. Secondary was the removal of the ever present Syrian threat from the Lebanese sphere. Third was to prop up the Gemayel clan so that Israel would have its much ballyhooed buffer zone and SLA clients without any static.

The Israeli state and the apartheid regime of South Africa were united in their racist policies. Thanks for sidestepping the facts.

Face it, rach, your beloved country is not only racist, but does deals with racists, bigots, semi-fascists and Rapturist nutjobs. Ever hear of Karma?

 

[rachamim18]

How can you label Israel racist when both Arab and Jew belong to the same race? Funny that you denigrate the only true home of democracy in the Nid-East. For Heaven's sake we are having a Gay Parade in a month [again]. You do not make any sense at all Nino.

 

[nino_savatte]

How can you label Israel racist when both Arab and Jew belong to the same race? Funny that you denigrate the only true home of democracy in the Nid-East. For Heaven's sake we are having a Gay Parade in a month [again]. You do not make any sense at all Nino.

Easy, Israel was predominantly settled/constructed by Europeans, who saw anyone else as dirt. The Baghdadi Jews who left Iraq to go to Israel were treated like second class citizens, which pales besides the treatment meted out to the Palestinian people on a daily basis.

So despite your attempts to wriggle, the Israeli state is racist. Furthermore, Jews can be racists. If you think that being Jewish exonerates one from being a racist, think again. Even Black people can be racist.

You not only make no sense, you talk shite, you lie and you wriggle. Wtf does a Gay Pride march have to do with the fact that Israel got into bed with apartheid era South Africa? Nothing.

 

[TomUS]

So despite your attempts to wriggle, the Israeli state is racist.

Yes, many in the Israeli state are racists, just as many in the Palestinian territories are also.

If the holochaust haden't happened, I think it very unlikely that Israel would exist today. I think it was the major event that created Israel.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, many in the Israeli state are racists, just as many in the Palestinian territories are also.

If the holochaust haden't happened, I think it very unlikely that Israel would exist today. I think it was the major event that created Israel.

The Palestinian authorities did not seek partnerships with notorious racist states like South Africa. In fact, Reagan also did business with SA; and was quite happy to let apartheid continue. So much so, that he blocked any form of legislation that censured the SA government.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: All natural born Jews are Semitic, whether they are born in Germany, Tashkentt, or in Baghdad. It makes no difference. We all posses the same genetic markers proving our dispersal during the Roman Exodus so it's a lost cause you are trying to sell.

Sephardim and Mizrachim were treated as second class citizens on a daily basis? Not true at all. There was huge gaps in education and pursuant opportunities but after the 67 War these just about disappeared. Even if they remained it would not negate the fact that Sephardim, Mizrachim, and Ashkenazim all share the same markers.

Can Jews be racists? Anyone can be a racist/ Jews are no more likely or less likely than the communities around them. This is a sad fact of life.

Israel had a political and military relationship [regretably] with Apartheid era S. Africa. So what? Shared objectives are the driving force, never ideology. Most children can discern this Nino.

"The PA did not seek relationships with Apartheid govrnments." Nope, but they elcted the racist HAMAS who aim is to kill every Jew in the world [per their Charter] so what is your point?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: All natural born Jews are Semitic, whether they are born in Germany, Tashkentt, or in Baghdad. It makes no difference. We all posses the same genetic markers proving our dispersal during the Roman Exodus so it's a lost cause you are trying to sell.

Sephardim and Mizrachim were treated as second class citizens on a daily basis? Not true at all. There was huge gaps in education and pursuant opportunities but after the 67 War these just about disappeared. Even if they remained it would not negate the fact that Sephardim, Mizrachim, and Ashkenazim all share the same markers.

Can Jews be racists? Anyone can be a racist/ Jews are no more likely or less likely than the communities around them. This is a sad fact of life.

Israel had a political and military relationship [regretably] with Apartheid era S. Africa. So what? Shared objectives are the driving force, never ideology. Most children can discern this Nino.

"The PA did not seek relationships with Apartheid govrnments." Nope, but they elcted the racist HAMAS who aim is to kill every Jew in the world [per their Charter] so what is your point?

None of this alters the fact that Israel did business with an extremely racist state. Furthermore the "parallel aims" that you alluded to were nothing more or less than racist and despite your attempts to claim otherwise: Israel has behaved in a racist manner towards the Palestinians. Just because Jews and Arabs are Semites means nothing. It's still racist, and nothing you say can alter that.

Hell, even those emigre European Jews who settled in Palestine regarded the indigenous Jews (particularly the Baghdadi Jews) as second class citizens. This is a lie but why should I be so surprised?

Sephardim and Mizrachim were treated as second class citizens on a daily basis? Not true at all.

There is plenty of documentary evidence to counter this but I woun't be posting any of it here. I mean, what's the point when I hve to deal with a slippery worm like you?