Should Thatcher apologize?

[Isambard]

I've no sympathy with 70s Labour for attacking the living standards of working class people than I have with Labour doing it in the nineties and naughties.

Scargill? Bit of a tanky on a power trip, but history has basicly proved him right.

Of course there were cabinet memebers and Tory MPs and all the rest of them.
But it is Th*tcher who as the figurehead gets the emotion.

It's quite often said the venom against her is sexist, even misogynist.
But I don't other senior female polticians (eg France, Germany, New Zealand etc) raising the same level of emotion.

 

[Azrael]

But it is Th*tcher who as the figurehead gets the emotion.

Do you try to counter this emotion? I assure you I feel strong emotion against people convicted of serious crimes, but I do try to overcome it, and certainly avoid expressing it in public. People argue here for tolerance and understanding for wrongdoers. Many must feel as I do, but also overcome it. Yet with Lady Thatcher, it's open season, complete with competing boasts about desecrating her grave. I'm not given to amateur psychology, but something interesting is going on here.

 

[TylerD]

Lady Thatcher will obviously be passed caring, and the only people it'll hurt are her family.

Mark and Carol Thatcher. Lovely people.

Does Mr Scargill get a share of opprobrium for picking a loosing fight with her,

Oh, come on. Thatcher's government followed the Ridley plan published in the Economist in 1978 almost to the letter. They even backed down in the face of an earlier conflict in 1982 because coal stocks weren't high enough and they feared they would lose. It was Thatcher's government that picked a fight with Scargill, from a position of strength, after years of preparation.

or the previous Labour government for laying the seeds of her 1979 victory?

I agree with you on this. The Wilson-Callaghan government gets off far too lightly.

 

[Azrael]

Sir Mark acts the fool, and Ms Thatcher's idiotic comment about golliwogs did her no credit, but I don't have the urge to compound their grief because of it.

 

[Isambard]

Do you try to counter this emotion? I assure you I feel strong emotion against people convicted of serious crimes, but I do try to overcome it, and certainly avoid expressing it in public.

We have emotions, we are humans. (Paddy Power is offering some funny odds on whether the Evil One is, but I'm not usually a betting man).

Unless you are close to the victim and / or it was a particualry heinious crime, do you feel such a rush emotion when you you hear of a crime of violence committed? With distance we can see that the concept of capital punishment is so flawed that it is generally rejected.

With Thatch*r, people saw communities and peoples' lives fucked up by her.
Not just her neo-liberal politics but also her conservatism.

It's very emotional.
It's very personal.
I hope she suffers.

 

[Azrael]

Unless you are close to the victim and / or it was a particualry heinious crime, do you feel such a rush emotion when you you hear of a crime of violence committed?

Quite often, actually. But I don't broadcast it.

As for Lady Thatcher's "conservatism", what did she conserve, and how did her conservation "fuck people's lives up"? Her market dogmatism certainly caused suffering, but I'm constantly told by those on the Left that I'm a bad person for wanting criminals, who caused far more suffering, to be punished. This includes those guilty of the most heinous crimes. (Although lurid revenge fantasies tend to be overlooked.) Retribution is bad, I'm told, and must be resisted.

Yet it's okay to hate Lady Thatcher, wish death on her, and laugh about desecrating her grave. What's that if not retribution and revenge? This is all very confusing.

 

[dylans]

Just her? What about her cabinet, and the Tory MPs who voted through her laws? Does Mr Scargill get a share of opprobrium for picking a loosing fight with her, or the previous Labour government for laying the seeds of her 1979 victory?

As for all this talk of pissing on her grave, what's it meant to prove? The desecration makes people feel better, but I don't see why. Lady Thatcher will obviously be passed caring, and the only people it'll hurt are her family.

Like I give a flying fuck about upsetting "gollywog" Carol and Mark the coup maker.

 

[nino_savatte]

Democracy's a bugger, eh?

Only thing is, democracy didn't get a look in. The Poll Tax was imposed on Scotland before it was rolled out in Hinglan'.

 

[danny la rouge]

She had an electoral mandate x 3, what can I tell you.

You can tell us your point.

She was elected. So what?

 

[Stoat Boy]

With Thatch*r, people saw communities and peoples' lives fucked up by her.
Not just her neo-liberal politics but also her conservatism.

It's very emotional.
It's very personal.
I hope she suffers.

And for a lot of people she is seen as giving them a massive boost in terms of their personal wealth and aspirations.

I think those of you who think that when she dies you will be able to go on some great festival of hatred with no come back are in for a massive shock. There are a lot of people who see her as a truly inspirational leader who transformed this country for the better.

 

[danny la rouge]

. There are a lot of people who see her as a truly inspirational leader who transformed this country for the better.

And those people are the enemy.

 

[Stoat Boy]

And those people are the enemy.

Fair enough. If thats how you want to view things then fine but you need to take into account that enemies fight back.

 

[danny la rouge]

enemies fight back.

You're joking, right? They've been waging war on us for centuries.

 

[Stoat Boy]

You're joking, right? They've been waging war on us for centuries.

Us ? Who are 'us' ?

 

[danny la rouge]

Us ? Who are 'us' ?

Not you.

 

[Zapata]

You're joking, right? They've been waging war on us for centuries.

Who do you mean by "us" ?

 

[danny la rouge]

Who do you mean by "us" ?

Those upon whom the class enemy has waged war for centuries.

 

[Zapata]

Those upon whom the class enemy has waged war for centuries.

Oh you mean "us" as in peasants, serfs and proles.

 

[danny la rouge]

Oh you mean "us" as in peasants, serfs and proles.

Of course. Who did you think?

 

[Zapata]

Of course. Who did you think?

I thought class war ended about the same time as the SWP lost it's sense of humour.

 

[danny la rouge]

I thought class war ended about the same time as the SWP lost it's sense of humour.

I'm not aware of Swappie humour. However, class war has never let up. In fact, it is now so normal it goes mostly without notice, until and unless the peasants, serfs and proles fight back, in which case all of a sudden it's "oh, class war's so old-fashioned. You are a dinosaur. How dare you fight back".

 

[dylans]

Things she should apologise for

the falklands war

Bobby Sands and 9 other dead hunger strikers

Closing every coal mine in the country

Cruise and Trident.

Arming Bin Laden and the Afghan mujahideen.

Selling off all the council houses and public amenities

 

[DownwardDog]

Fair enough. If thats how you want to view things then fine but you need to take into account that enemies fight back.

And we usually win.

 

[DotCommunist]

tell that to the romanovs

 

[dylans]

tell that to the romanovs

Or the Ceausescus

 

[Stoat Boy]

I'm not aware of Swappie humour. However, class war has never let up. In fact, it is now so normal it goes mostly without notice, until and unless the peasants, serfs and proles fight back, in which case all of a sudden it's "oh, class war's so old-fashioned. You are a dinosaur. How dare you fight back".

But it depends how you define 'class war'.

I dont see to many of the old established order trying to fuck me over or stop me from doing what I want. Its the new establishment of the liberal middle classes who tell me that I am a cunt, and have the political power to impose laws on me for wanting to own a 4x4 or take cheap flights to my home abroad or want me to pay more tax on what I earn and then spend.

The class war I am fighting is not with the nobility but rather the hypocritical middle class twats who seem to be running this country at the moment.

 

[danny la rouge]

You seem a bit confused about who the ruling class is. Who is this "old established order"?

 

[Stoat Boy]

You seem a bit confused about who the ruling class is.

Educate me. You were the one who bought this notion of them and 'us' into it.

 

[Zapata]

The class war I am fighting is not with the nobility but rather the hypocritical middle class twats who seem to be running this country at the moment.

Well said.

 

[Blagsta]

Well said.

Funny opinion for someone called Zapata