Should Oxford Street be pedestrianised?

[kyser_soze]

i voted yes. i've never been to any other town where their 'main' shopping street wasn't pedestrianised, it seems crazy that london still insist on having traffic down there. there would be alternative ways for those elderly/infirm people, surely the tube gets you along a whole lot of it, genius invention that, it's like a train but underground, mental.

OK, I assume you don't live in London? Or have visited say, New York or Paris? I would say your frame of reference is fairly limited in scope. It also displays a collosal ignorance of the Soho/Fitzrovia/Grosvenor areas as well.

Added to the issues that many councils have found with pedestrianising high streets (especially after the shops have closed) I don't think that your 'Because every other provincial hole has pedestrianised it's hig street (and you're forgetting Kings Road, Kensington, Camden and a dozen other 'main' shopping areas...Oxford St is just Westminster's 'High Street'

And there's a time benefit that has to be weighed with using the tube - it takes me about 3-5 mins to get to the central line platform at Tottenham Court Road, it['s a 3 minute journey up Oxford st to OS and another 3-5 mins to exit the station - and if the shop I want is in the middle I've still got to walk/bus the distance back.

On the elderly/infirm front...none of the stations have the facilities to easily cope with disabled/infirm travellers...

 

[christonabike]

Stobart, sounds like your kid has started smoking

I walk and smoke cos I can, and they won't let me smoke in shops

 

[beeboo]

Sounds like another nice-in-theory-but-unworkable-in-practice transport idea from Simon Hughes.

Before the last mayoral elections he was out in person handing out leaflets to us people getting early trains into the City promoting a manifesto idea: that discounted travel should be available for people who arrive in London before 7.30am, in order to ease rush hour congestion. Well, nice idea - but how on earth do you pay for a ticket in advance on the basis of when you are going to arrive at your destination - do you have to pay extra if your train runs late?


We had all this discussion before when the monorail idea was suggested (more pie-in-the-sky). It would very difficult indeed to redirect all the traffic off Oxford Street. It is all very well suggesting buses terminate at TCR and Marble Arch, but how do you get between the two? TCR tube station is already operating at the limits of its capacity, ditto Oxford Circus - pushing people onto the tube is not the answer.

I also don't see how the proposed tram idea is going to free up huge amounts of pedestrian space - you'd need trams shuttling back and forth constantly to cope with demand. The monorail sounded more plausible to me, and that is saying something.

 

[kyser_soze]

Ban smoking in public in Oxford St and I will shop there all the time. I hate the fucking place mainly because when I take my son up there he has to spend his time playing dodge the lighted cigarette. On a busy day he comes back stinking of smoke beacuse it seems like 99.9 per cent of people shopping there walk around smoking. It's disgusting. And it creates litter.

hmmm, the stinking of smoke could be down to the diesel burning buses and taxis and delivery vans and accumulated shite from 1 million vehicles in and around London, rather than just smokers?

And Oxford St isn't a covered mall FFS, it's public space...'ban smoking in public on Oxford St'

Besides which, what's down Oxfrod St you can't get from Lakeside or Bluewater?

 

[J77]

I'm in favour of limited access to all city centres, ie. access for disabled, vendors at early hours, eco-buses (not taxis), pedestrians and bicycles.

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm in favour of limited access to all city centres, ie. access for disabled, vendors at early hours, eco-buses (not taxis), pedestrians and bicycles.

Well, London doesn't HAVE a 'city centre'...so where would your great pedestrian zone go in central? Bearing in mind that unlike many high streets and city centres London has a profusion of different businesses and industries clustered together - for example, your plan would be unworkable around the OS area because there are 000s of businesses dependent on motorised delivery of packages.

 

[J77]

Yeah - London's fucked up.

Bulldozer plus rebuild would be a solution.

 

[jæd]

Yeah - London's fucked up.

Bulldozer plus rebuild would be a solution.

Nope, London is fine. Pedestrianising the Oxford Street area would "fuck it up".

 

[J77]

Nope, London is fine. Pedestrianising the Oxford Street area would "fuck it up".

Do any Londoners actually shop on Oxford St - when I'm in London, I know I don't.

 

[Belushi]

Do any Londoners actually shop on Oxford St - when I'm in London, I know I don't.

I never do, hate the place.

 

[jæd]

Do any Londoners actually shop on Oxford St - when I'm in London, I know I don't.

Occasionally -- usually on on a Thursday evening. But once you know London you know where all the better shops are.

 

[parallelepipete]

I voted no, because as a cyclist I find strict pedestrianisation a right pain, and over the top.

However I would support an Amsterdam-style pedestrian/cyclists/tram (OK, bus for now) only, where the whole width of the street is paved, not with a separate tarmac'd highway, so that pedestrians feel more welcomed. After all, if you pedestrianise it, you need to cater for all the shoppers who need to get their purchases home and don't fancy walking back to their part of town.

 

[parallelepipete]

I also don't see how the proposed tram idea is going to free up huge amounts of pedestrian space - you'd need trams shuttling back and forth constantly to cope with demand. The monorail sounded more plausible to me, and that is saying something.

Trams generally take up slightly less width than buses because they're guided accurately by the rails. That also makes it easier to get rid of kerbs, so you can remove a small but psychologically important barrier to free movement of peds.

Thirdly, trams can carry up to three times the number of passengers of a bendy bus, so you'd have far fewer vehicle movements, which also makes things safer for peds. And they're generally faster because drivers don't argue with you or park on your track.

 

[Belushi]

However I would support an Amsterdam-style pedestrian/cyclists/tram (OK, bus for now) only, where the whole width of the street is paved, not with a separate tarmac'd highway, so that pedestrians feel more welcomed.

That's been proposed for Exhibition Road (South Ken). I hope they go through with it, it'll be interesting to see whether that system can work in London.

 

[java1200]

Ban smoking in public in Oxford St and I will shop there all the time. I hate the fucking place mainly because when I take my son up there he has to spend his time playing dodge the lighted cigarette. On a busy day he comes back stinking of smoke beacuse it seems like 99.9 per cent of people shopping there walk around smoking. It's disgusting. And it creates litter.

I suppose we should ban buses, taxis etc from using Oxford St., too, because those exhaust fumes can't be doing him any good either.

 

[rennie]

i hate shopping on Oxford st but sometime go on saturday early morning n get out asap. i don't drink/buy food around there.

 

[Wide Eyed Angel]

OK, I assume you don't live in London? Or have visited say, New York or Paris? I would say your frame of reference is fairly limited in scope. It also displays a collosal ignorance of the Soho/Fitzrovia/Grosvenor areas as well.

Added to the issues that many councils have found with pedestrianising high streets (especially after the shops have closed) I don't think that your 'Because every other provincial hole has pedestrianised it's hig street (and you're forgetting Kings Road, Kensington, Camden and a dozen other 'main' shopping areas...Oxford St is just Westminster's 'High Street'

And there's a time benefit that has to be weighed with using the tube - it takes me about 3-5 mins to get to the central line platform at Tottenham Court Road, it['s a 3 minute journey up Oxford st to OS and another 3-5 mins to exit the station - and if the shop I want is in the middle I've still got to walk/bus the distance back.

On the elderly/infirm front...none of the stations have the facilities to easily cope with disabled/infirm travellers...

um, i do live in london though not for much longer but no i haven't been to those places you mention. i don't usually go to oxford street though because it's horribly overcrowded and likely to give me pedestrian rage! so no i can't say any amazing solution but why not redirect the traffic to the less 'shopping' area, i'm sure there must be other roads for buses etc. was the day that they did that not some kind of success? http://glalibdems.org.uk/news/351.html

maybe with the crazy price hike red ken can sort out getting facilities for those elderly and infirm folk to help them use the tube which has a handy run along oxford street.

most other places with pedestrianised areas have to have deliveries made to them by van-like transport, but they do get to drive down there so it's not like a total shut down of the area.

edited for none linking link

 

[Gmart]

Great idea this!!!

Surely we could pedestrianise a whole bunch of streets like this.

Divert the traffic away and set up space for cafes, etc.

This could be a good move forward towards more social space in the city centres and more services, making our towns and cities nicer places to live, along the lines of the towns and cities in the rest of Europe.

It might be a good idea to promote the mayoral system so that we have someone with the powers to effect such changes.

If the mayoral pilot scheme in London were spread across the country, and such spaces were created, we could see a renaissance.

 

[rover07]

Would cycling be allowed?

 

[detective-boy]

Not sure about the centre of croydon being wicked, though.

It is on a Friday and Saturday night ... if we're using "wicked" in it's English usage as opposed to it's yoot-speak usage, that is ...

 

[detective-boy]

I voted yes, but with a proviso: some public transport shuttle from end to end (bus or tram) and (possibly) allowing pedal cycles in a marked lane. The bus version would allow for more flexibility in road design, so that the bus lane could meander from side to side where a tram route would obviously have to be pretty much a straight line.

And no taxis (there is no need for taxis to be permitted now) and delivery vans (where premises genuinely have to delivery possible from rear service areas then have strict delivery times (e.g. before 8am and after 8pm or something), perhaps with a facility for delivery to a receiving station at a service point and delivery within the street at the appropriate times by a delivery shuttle (to be honest, you could probably allow that at almost all hours as you would be talking about a handful of vans used to operating on a pretty much pedestrianised area).

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Smoking should also be banned in Oxford Street as well, the place stinks when it's really busy, and it's quite dangerous, the number of people bumping into you with hot cigarettes.

 

[RubyToogood]

I'm a bit dubious. I go round this area quite a bit by motorbike so know the road layout quite well. The current situation is that Oxford St is the main East-West road through the area - a route which most traffic is now not allowed to use, and there isn't a straightforward alternative. In order to get east-west one has to navigate up and down through lots of narrow little side roads - turn left, turn right, stop at the lights every 100m, with the A-Z constantly open in front of you. It's a complex route, not like Croydon where there is a parallel main road. If buses, taxis and cycles were also banned from Oxford St and forced onto these roads, I suspect it would snarl up the whole area and just relocate the problem rather than solving it, lengthen bus journey times etc.

 

[detective-boy]

If buses, taxis and cycles were also banned from Oxford St and forced onto these roads, I suspect it would snarl up the whole area and just relocate the problem rather than solving it.

It couldn't be done without major traffic engineering in the surrounding areas and probably some wider scheme intended to divert through traffic entirely.

It would surely make more sense for bus routes to terminate in Central London rather than go right through and out the other side in some cases, with just smaller, local shuttle services (or trams) operating in the very centre.

 

[Gmart]

It couldn't be done without major traffic engineering in the surrounding areas and probably some wider scheme intended to divert through traffic entirely.

It would surely make more sense for bus routes to terminate in Central London rather than go right through and out the other side in some cases, with just smaller, local shuttle services (or trams) operating in the very centre.

Sure, it would take effort, but it would be worth it to try and work towards these cafe quartier areas. It would improve all our lives! Transport is important, but we need to be visionary and not get frightened by change. There would be resistance, but imagine if Charles II hadn't given in to such pressure after the Great Fire, and had allowed Wren to open out London!

 

[RubyToogood]

It would surely make more sense for bus routes to terminate in Central London rather than go right through and out the other side in some cases, with just smaller, local shuttle services (or trams) operating in the very centre.

There is a trend though for bus routes to get shorter and shorter because of congestion - I do feel this should be resisted wherever possible.

 

[_angel_]

I voted yes, but with a proviso: some public transport shuttle from end to end (bus or tram) and (possibly) allowing pedal cycles in a marked lane. The bus version would allow for more flexibility in road design, so that the bus lane could meander from side to side where a tram route would obviously have to be pretty much a straight line.

And no taxis (there is no need for taxis to be permitted now) and delivery vans (where premises genuinely have to delivery possible from rear service areas then have strict delivery times (e.g. before 8am and after 8pm or something), perhaps with a facility for delivery to a receiving station at a service point and delivery within the street at the appropriate times by a delivery shuttle (to be honest, you could probably allow that at almost all hours as you would be talking about a handful of vans used to operating on a pretty much pedestrianised area).

What about something for people who've bought large bulky items - a taxi might be needed then.

Oxford Street is pretty big as far as I recall, a complete pedestrianisation may be out of the question. Maybe a partial one?

A lot of Leeds is pedestrianised and it works quite well, however, it is in far smaller chunks than something the size of Oxford Street.

 

[detective-boy]

There is a trend though for bus routes to get shorter and shorter because of congestion - I do feel this should be resisted wherever possible.

Why? I assume you are concerned about people having to get on and off different buses in a fragmented journey.

The key issue is not the length but the nature of the journeys undertaken. The majority of people on most bus routes through the centre of London would, I suggest, either come from the edges to the middle or go from the middle to the edges. Relatively few would travel in from one side of the middle and out the other (no, I have no stats but I do have the evidence of my eyes when I use such buses).

The issue of having to pay for different buses used for a single journey could be addressed quite simply by validating tickets from the original bus for any change buses within a time period consistent with a direct change. That probably needs to be addressed now anyway - people having to take two buses for a single journey (and there must be many) should not have to pay twice.

 

[detective-boy]

What about something for people who've bought large bulky items - a taxi might be needed then.

I would envisage access to taxis in many / all of the side streets terminating at Oxford Street. And there is absolutely nothing to prevent more imaginative solutions being developed. We don't have to restrict ourselves to how things work now (in fact, that is the very last thing we should do!!).

 

[HackneyE9]

There is a trend though for bus routes to get shorter and shorter because of congestion - I do feel this should be resisted wherever possible.

That's interesting. Any examples? (I think the 253 Euston to Whitechapel, terminating in the middle at the Nag's Head might be one...)