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Should mrs ii quit her job?

I agree there should be more help for mums who want to stay at home. However, your assertion that stay at home mums are best for the baby are simply not backed up by research.


There is a point to be made about the value of traditional woman's work. The wages for housework movement has been going for sometime. Without the unpaid and undervalued work that women do this country could not run.


Depends on the individual doesn't it? For some people staying at home would be hell on earth.

1) I'd like to see this research, and the length of time studies took place over.

2)The whole point of housework is you cant pay for it, the breadwinners wages would, in most circumstances go into a joint account anyway. And, why does everything have to be about a relationship with capital?

3)If both partners feel that staying home would be 'hell on earth', why have children?
 
Listen to your wife.

Support your wife, you are a very lucky man to have a wife and two children, dont you realise that.
You look after the baby when not working - she could work full time - seeing as you seem to spend all the time discussing your personal problems on the internet.
Discuss this with your wife.
Look at the future benefits.
You never answered the question about child tax credits, they pay alot of the childcare.
Somebody needs to tell you what to do, and for you to listen!
 
Support your wife, you are a very lucky man to have a wife and two children, dont you realise that.
You look after the baby when not working - she could work full time - seeing as you seem to spend all the time discussing your personal problems on the internet.
Discuss this with your wife.
Look at the future benefits.
You never answered the question about child tax credits, they pay alot of the childcare.
Somebody needs to tell you what to do, and for you to listen!

Are you Mrs II? :D
 
Blimey no, I have just got a job I really enjoy that has the hours to suit me and the children, after many many years of searching for the right combination. If Mrs II has found herself a job that suits in the present climate she should keep the regular income, and sort out suitable childcare by being supported by her husband. Moral support and praise for her wouldnt go a miss from him.
 
She's just got her dream job working at the local pre-school, but i told her she should quit. Should she do what i say?

The problem is that we've a baby and my mum who was looking after her is finding it too difficult as the baby is quite needy and she's getting on a bit. Another option is to take the baby to a childminder but that would reduce the £7/hour to £3/hour and the other option is for me to take time off work, i often have spare days as i'm self-employed but not always.

She's in the process of setting up as a childminder so i think she should quit the job and concentrate on childminding as she can look after our baby whilst working.

i'll ask her, although i'm sure she knows what help she can get.
Wow. You seem to be handing your wife a lot of the responsibility to bear for bringing in extra cash to your family, considering you also believe she should be taking care of your baby. You seem to be doing a lot of telling your wife what to do, and very little taking some level of personal responsibility for caring for a child you refer to as yours in the plural.

On the one hand, you come across as quite 'old man', i.e. she should be looking after our baby.

On the other, you come across as quite 'new man', i.e. she should be out there earning.

Nowhere in the equation does your wife's choices seem to come into the equation.

And as for your wife knowing what help "she" can get, it seems as though you're a bit selective about the we and shes in your perspectives.

If there's a problem with your mother backing out of an agreement to child-mind, your attitude is that it's your wife's problem to figure out a workable solution, for your wife to work around someone else letting her/you down.

Tbh, I think I'd be feeling a bit stitched up if I were you wife (which I'm glad I'm not). Yeah, let's have a baby, my mother can look after it when you go back to work, yeah it'll be great, sorted. Fast forward... wife gets dream job, mother's not managing so well. Oh, erm, you know that let's have a baby, it'll be great, mother'll look after it while you go back to work... erm, then again, maybe not... and I can't look after the baby either, it's up to you to figure it out, it's your problem. Oh, and by the way, don't be spending too much money on childcare, will you, because you need to be earning enough to pay the bills.

Quite an unexpected burden to dump on a new-ish mother all in all.

It seems as though you want to claim credit for the baby, "we've" "ours", but when it comes to dealing with any problems that arise, financial or childcare or otherwise, well, they're your wife's, she'll know what kind of help "she" (not "we") can get.

Maybe that's harsh, but that's what I'm reading between the lines of the selective use of pronouns and stuff.

And if you do get spare days, and if you don't think it would work for you to assume some of the childcare duties, then why not try to get some extra work? Maybe even see if you can get another part-time job for a short while, why don't you try to assume some of the burden either by yourself, or jointly with your wife in terms of trying to work more hours or earning higher pay, at least in the short term, till you're a bit more secure financially? Why is the burden seemingly all your wife's, why is it all about what she should be doing, and not what you might be able to do yourself to improve the lot of your family? :confused:
 
Yeah, but it can go too far.

We always said that whe we had kids we'd both go part time and share everything (we've always had a pure share of bills etc. anyway, all the money goes in to one account and all the bills out of same, only, account).

I was really committed to sharing the raising as much as possible, even when circumstances meant I had to be full time and ms Cat become full time mum.

However...

I now get up 0500 ish with the baby EVERY morning, don't get a shower because that'd wake 3 year old/Mum, feed change play with baby 'til 3 year old gets up 7ish, same there, (all of which I love), take toast/tea to Ms Cat, she gets up giving me 11 minutes max to get ready for work (and whinges too about how tired she is). I get to work late, my work is patchy.

During day I deal with any telephone/internet matters to do with the kids, tax credits etc, and shop in my dinner break.

I get home about 5.30 or 6, cook tea - always from fresh - feed the kids 'cos Ms Cat is exhausted and goes off with her tea to watch TV. I usually don't get tea myself 'cos it's too much hassle to feed them and me, and do the measurements needed to make sure any meal doesn't upset the balance of my diabetes.

I then play with toddler and baby until about 7.30 when Ms Cat takes over bedtime stuff for toddler and I bath +/or bed baby.

The 10pm feed for baby is my responsibility, Ms Cat is off duty in fact from my arrival home except for putting toddler kitten to bed.

Baby needs feeds about 2AM, I stay up to do this because interruptions to sleep are bad for my diabetes.

Apart from a few business trips i have not had more than 4 hours kip for 10 months.


But I still get people, usually women, telling me I have it easy because I have a full time job and 'your poor wife has all the hard work'.


But on the plus side my kids do love me and will be very sad when I drop dead any day now.

Hey that was some whinge.
I think things can get into a bit of a competitive martyrdom scenario.

It sounds like Mrs Cat doesn't want to fall into that female trap of being taken for granted and working at home not being considered 'real' work, equal in value to what you've been doing all day at work, so on the one hand, it's good that you don't get to clock-off as soon as you get home, you appreciate work doesn't end at 6pm for either of you and you assume responsibilities in the light of that.

But you're right though, that does seem to have swung the other way.

And while it seems as though you have a reason to whinge, if you're getting up early, staying up late, but Mrs Cat is moaning about being tired... has it occurred to you that she might be affected by post-natal depression? Lethargy and exhaustion can be symptoms of depression. But then again, it might not, she might genuinely be so exhausted because it's pretty full on caring for two small children. If people want a bit of 'me' time at work, they'll nip out for a cigarette, or in some workplaces (if sitcoms are to be believed), men will take a magazine into the loo stalls for some navel gazing and a long break or whatever... You can't even have a wee in peace with small children around, either trying to climb on your knee or banging on the door to be let in or whatever... it's intense and pretty relentless in a way that 'real' work isn't always.

Is there any way you could get a break for both of you? Are there no grandparents or close living nearby who could give you both a day and night to go out and have a loooooooooooong lie in? It sounds like you're both exhausted and both need a break.
 
On the one hand, you come across as quite 'old man', i.e. she should be looking after our baby.

On the other, you come across as quite 'new man', i.e. she should be out there earning.

I thought 'New Men' were supposed to be all caring, not shoving people out of the door to work so their offspring can be raised by strangers?

In fact Chainsaw seems more 'new man' to me.

I dunno what I am, I work, my wife doesn't, nor does she want to. I do what I can with the babber when I'm not working. However, I cannot feed it as I lack breasts.

We both feel that living on my pitiful wage and struggling is better than her going back out to work and being more comfortably off, but having to pay someone else to bring our child up.

This is the first year that I feel under real pressure to grow all our veg - it was a hobby before, now it seems critical.
 
Can we hear from Mrs II? what does she think about all the comments? Oh yes I forgot she is too busy bring up two children.
 
Thanks for all the comments.

To update, she isn't working now until the maternity leave ends and we'll split the childcare to mainly my mum and sometimes a childminder (which we arent elligable for any help paying) and we'll have to see how my mum gets on. Then she will try and get some chilminding kids, the crb has come through so the license shouldn't be too far behind.
 
it's just that it's the best job she's had in years, not that she wants to get away from the baby, in fact she feels very guilty leaving her.

And money is very tight, there really isn't any extras that we can cut out. And she'll be a hell of a lot more miserable if we lose our house. My income just isn't reliable enough, i've just had 3 weeks off with holidays and flu and no money coming in, we do need her to earn something.

Yes, £10 is probably a bit ambitious, but £6 or £7 would be ok.

if she is working for £3 an hour, thats a steady if low income. if she takes in one child, thats £4. are you so skint that £1 makes all the difference? couldnt you get a part time job too, hell, even 1 shift a week doing night work would make up the shortfall

Yeah, but it can go too far.

We always said that whe we had kids we'd both go part time and share everything (we've always had a pure share of bills etc. anyway, all the money goes in to one account and all the bills out of same, only, account).

I was really committed to sharing the raising as much as possible, even when circumstances meant I had to be full time and ms Cat become full time mum.

However...

I now get up 0500 ish with the baby EVERY morning, don't get a shower because that'd wake 3 year old/Mum, feed change play with baby 'til 3 year old gets up 7ish, same there, (all of which I love), take toast/tea to Ms Cat, she gets up giving me 11 minutes max to get ready for work (and whinges too about how tired she is). I get to work late, my work is patchy.

During day I deal with any telephone/internet matters to do with the kids, tax credits etc, and shop in my dinner break.

I get home about 5.30 or 6, cook tea - always from fresh - feed the kids 'cos Ms Cat is exhausted and goes off with her tea to watch TV. I usually don't get tea myself 'cos it's too much hassle to feed them and me, and do the measurements needed to make sure any meal doesn't upset the balance of my diabetes.

I then play with toddler and baby until about 7.30 when Ms Cat takes over bedtime stuff for toddler and I bath +/or bed baby.

The 10pm feed for baby is my responsibility, Ms Cat is off duty in fact from my arrival home except for putting toddler kitten to bed.

Baby needs feeds about 2AM, I stay up to do this because interruptions to sleep are bad for my diabetes.

Apart from a few business trips i have not had more than 4 hours kip for 10 months.


But I still get people, usually women, telling me I have it easy because I have a full time job and 'your poor wife has all the hard work'.


But on the plus side my kids do love me and will be very sad when I drop dead any day now.


Hey that was some whinge.

does mrs cc fancy a swap ? :D mr feyr and i work almost opposite shifts to keep childcare costs to a minimum. i do more childcare day to day as a) i have more patience, b) i'm more organised.and c) he also works 2 shifts a week in a local pub. i do 1 extra shift, and 3 night oncalls , so bring in slightly more money as i am also on a higher grade at work than him. but he does however do a good share, and is happy for me to have the occasional night out.

Thanks for all the comments.

To update, she isn't working now until the maternity leave ends and we'll split the childcare to mainly my mum and sometimes a childminder (which we arent elligable for any help paying) and we'll have to see how my mum gets on. Then she will try and get some chilminding kids, the crb has come through so the license shouldn't be too far behind.

i'm suprised you dont get any help with childcare cost as part of family credits, particularly if you arent in really well paid job. have you fully investigated you have applied for everything you are entitled to?

also, have you considered that if your child is having probs feeding, wanting to be held etc, that some parents might not want to leave their kids with you? if your wife is having to split her time between more than one child, how does that benefit the baby? the childcare i use costs £4 an hour in a nursery setting, and you only pay for the hours you use, on an ad hoc basis if need be. same as a childminder but with more resources and activities.
 
Tbh, I think I'd be feeling a bit stitched up if I were you wife (which I'm glad I'm not). Yeah, let's have a baby, my mother can look after it when you go back to work, yeah it'll be great, sorted. Fast forward... wife gets dream job, mother's not managing so well. Oh, erm, you know that let's have a baby, it'll be great, mother'll look after it while you go back to work... erm, then again, maybe not... and I can't look after the baby either, it's up to you to figure it out, it's your problem. Oh, and by the way, don't be spending too much money on childcare, will you, because you need to be earning enough to pay the bills.

Quite an unexpected burden to dump on a new-ish mother all in all.


spot on AnnO'Neemus!
 
I think some of you are being a bit ahrd on i-i. Perhaps he didn't express himself quite right - it makes me laugh to hear him being perceived of as a overbearing husband.:D

I would say perhaps mrss ii should stick at the job because when babe is older, not such a long way away, it might be able to go to nursery too and cut all child care costs stone dead.

Meantime, is there a compromise between mr ii, mother and a bit of childminder?

Just a thought like :)
 
Thanks for all the comments.

To update, she isn't working now until the maternity leave ends and we'll split the childcare to mainly my mum and sometimes a childminder (which we arent elligable for any help paying) and we'll have to see how my mum gets on. Then she will try and get some chilminding kids, the crb has come through so the license shouldn't be too far behind.
So basically, you used a couple of comments posted here to instill the fear factor into Mrsii, ooh, you shouldn't be working while getting SMP, to *ahem* encourage *ahem* her to leave her dream job (even though someone else said unpaid work was okay).

And so she's now at home full-time and is going to make a go of childminding.

So, erm, just what you wanted, eh? Result! :) :rolleyes: :(
 
eh? no, she spoke to her new boss and the boss was feeling bad that she wasn't paying her so she offered to keep her job open until the maternity leave ends. Which gives us a few months. The baby is getting easier, at the moment she loves being in this walker thing so she doesn't need carrying and she's getting on to solids more therefore making feeding easier. She's having a hard time teething though. So my mum will have her and then take her to the childminder who will then have her for a little while, taking some of the pressure off my mum.

sorry for not making it clear.

and thanks for the support penni. :)
 
The thing that makes me mildly uneasy in all of this is the attitude that going out to work is by far and away the most important thing one can do.

Edited to add - its the 'fetishisation of labour' that I feel most surprised at for a left leaning/anarchist site.

If II and his wife made an agreement that she was going to stay off work to look after the child after it was born, then surely that should be stuck to.

I was reading an article in one of the papers - (god knows where, I haven't bought one for yonks, it could even have been an old one I was putting under a barrel to catch drips) about how the author (a mother to a six month old and a toddler) felt under incredible pressure to go back to work because it was the 'feminist thing to do' and apparently this is a London thing, People don't expect it of you so much out in the 'backwards' shires.
 
Mrs Ill-informed here.

Ill-informed and I discussed what i would do when our baby was born and i was looking forward to staying at home with our 2 young children.

We discussed me doing a bit of childminding which i had and still have my resavations about. (main issuse is the huge amount of paper work).

The pre school job has come a year too early but i feel i can not let the opportunity pass as it has great benefits for the future e.g. term time only. The job is only 2 mornings a week and when i was offered the job i was disapointed by Ill-informeds negative response. I now realise its too much for my mother in law to care for the baby so suggested a childminder or Ill-informed taking time off, neither went down very well. To keep everyone happy i decided to split the care between a childminder one morning and my mother in law the other. So this means i get to keep the job and the baby is only in childcare for one morning.

I have checked if we can get any help with childcare costs and we dont unless i work over 16 hours.

The baby's feeding issues is getting eaiser as she now has 3 meals a day and will take a little water from a beaker.

I have been upset that i have not had the support or understanding form the person i thought would be pleased that i had got a job i really enjoy and that will fit in with family life once our children are at school.

I hope some of the comments have made ill-informed think and made me realise that its often me who has to try to deal with any issues/problems that arise.
 
I hope some of the comments have made ill-informed think and made me realise that its often me who has to try to deal with any issues/problems that arise.

Hi Mayann - I think this is maybe the most important point! In a lot of families (and society) the assumption seems to be that everything related to childcare is the mother's responsibility. We never talk about working fathers or career men, do we? :hmm:
 
It's good to see that you have come to some sort of agreement although I completely understand why you would feel a bit hurt. If my husband was being discouraging and negative about something I really wanted to do I'd be hurt too.

I hope you really enjoy your job when you start properly. :)
 
Well done Mayann, It just goes to show that Ill-informed should have listened to you all along as you have been mainly supported by this internet discussion. If Ill-informed does not like the comments from you or anyone then he should never have started this thread. I believe this is a family matter (although the comments were very helpful) and its all about supporting each other in a healthly marriage.
 
Mrs Ill-informed here.

Ill-informed and I discussed what i would do when our baby was born and i was looking forward to staying at home with our 2 young children.

We discussed me doing a bit of childminding which i had and still have my resavations about. (main issuse is the huge amount of paper work).

The pre school job has come a year too early but i feel i can not let the opportunity pass as it has great benefits for the future e.g. term time only. The job is only 2 mornings a week and when i was offered the job i was disapointed by Ill-informeds negative response. I now realise its too much for my mother in law to care for the baby so suggested a childminder or Ill-informed taking time off, neither went down very well. To keep everyone happy i decided to split the care between a childminder one morning and my mother in law the other. So this means i get to keep the job and the baby is only in childcare for one morning.

I have checked if we can get any help with childcare costs and we dont unless i work over 16 hours.

The baby's feeding issues is getting eaiser as she now has 3 meals a day and will take a little water from a beaker.

I have been upset that i have not had the support or understanding form the person i thought would be pleased that i had got a job i really enjoy and that will fit in with family life once our children are at school.

I hope some of the comments have made ill-informed think and made me realise that its often me who has to try to deal with any issues/problems that arise.
It sounds to me as though Mr ill informed was misunderstanding or assuming that what you wanted to do was home-based child-minding. Whereas you only ever saw that as a temporary stop-gap for a year or so till the children were slightly older and you could get the kind of ideal job you describe, term-time only, fitting in with the children and family needs.

It seems as though Mr ill informed as been assuming that home-based childminding can be lucrative and that that was therefore something to be working towards, and that this part time work (while ideal in a you find it enjoyable sense) was the temporary stop gap while you got the paperwork and accreditation sorted for the long term plan to do childminding.

Am I summarising this wrongly?

MrII thinks part-time job is temporary stop gap, long term plan is home childminding, which he seems to think is lucrative, even though having two children reduces the number of other children that can be minded, and it's expensive in terms of equipment, insurance, accreditation costs, and time consuming in terms of assessments and paperwork.

MrsII thinks long term plan is to get a salaried job is to get a job that fits in with raising children, childminding at home was an idea for a temporary stop gap till that happened, but up popped an opportunity sooner than expected.

Tbh, the way I read it from what MrII was saying was that it was more hours and more inconvenient to accommodate than just two mornings per week. If it was five mornings per week, or three days per week or something, I could understand how it might be a struggle to juggle the childcare needs between mother-in-law, MrII and childminder.

Given that MrII himself admits that he sometimes has days off, I do think it's appalling that he can't commit to looking after his own children at least one morning a week, if not both. Too often, some men see assuming their share of childcare responsibilities as doing a favour, as 'baby sitting' their own children, *for* their wife or partner, as opposed to something they should be doing in any event.

What's stopping MrII from saying to clients who ask him to landscape their gardens or do other groundwork something along the lines of:

Actually, this job will take about three days labour. I'm not available next week, but I can do it the week after. I can start on Monday, but I'm not available on Tuesday mornings as I have a regular gig, so I can put in an extra hour or two on Monday afternoon, and stay later on Tuesday and Wednesday, so that the job's still finished by end of Wednesday.

He doesn't need to tell them what the 'regular gig' on Tuesday mornings is, if he doesn't want to, he can lead them to believe it's a contract for regular maintenance of grounds or a garden, or alternatively he can actually say, I'm being a responsible parent and assuming some of the childcare while my wonderful wife goes out to do her part-time job, because we're partner-parents.

I don't get why MrII is so insistent that he *can't* do any childcare, when it's only two mornings a week, and he himself admits that the work is sometimes a bit flexible, some days off here and there, so why can't he improve his negotiation skills, and better negotiate with clients his availability? Why is it all about MrsII *having* to compromise because MrII *refuses* to? :confused:

Seriously, MrII, raising your children is your job as well as MrsII's. So to use a horrible cliche, step up to the plate, mate!
 
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