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Should London's Zonal system be scrapped?

PacificOcean said:
Erm, yes.

That was my original point. :)
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It depends on what bit of Clapham and Zone 6 surely? There are poor and rich bits of both, or at least there was 15 years ago when I lived in a share in Stockwell and commuted to Zone 6. Fuck knows why anyone would actually want to live in Stockwell though, I mean I know Balham is all regenerated and posh now, but I can't imagaine how they would begin to tart up a dump like Stockwell.
 
Chairman Meow said:
Fuck knows why anyone would actually want to live in Stockwell though, I mean I know Balham is all regenerated and posh now, but I can't imagaine how they would begin to tart up a dump like Stockwell.
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I've lived in Stockwell for 4 years now. I moved there in order to lower the tone. Even further.

:cool:
 
Upchuck said:
Yeah but who wants to live in some dive like Stockwell? Or Wood Green.....:confused:
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erm... have you read the OP?

if travel fare should be lower from zone 6 because that's where the poor people have to live, and the inner zones are for poorer people, then how come poor people still live in inner zones?

the very basis of what he's saying isn't quite true so what's the point in discussing the travel shite.
 
I think the zonal system works pretty well really. I certainly can't see the point in scrapping it, because there doesn't seem to be a better alternative at present.

From my POV - living in an area where the suburban trains are the quickest way into London - the biggest improvement would be to integrate pricing on national rail suburban trains (not including London Overground) with the zones.

At the moment you pay slightly more to travel into town from Charlton than Greenwich. On one level that makes sense since it is a few miles further out. But on the other hand they're both zone 3, and it's a real nuisance if you want to go from Greenwich into London, and then return to Charlton later on. I'd like to see the fare zones applied on London commuter trains so that a ticket from one station in zone 3 (for argument's sake) will cost the same as from another and you can therefore extend your return journey by a stop or two without risking being done for dodging the fare.

Having typed all that, though, it's just occurred to me that introducing Oyster PAYG on the suburban trains will achieve pretty much that. So hasten the day that the Oyster machines that are currently sitting covered up outside the stations round here come into use...
 
Poor people may live in inner zones, but do they have to make a regular commute to work and pay the current zonal tube fares? I think you would need those stats.

I am inclined to agree with PO that loads of people in inner zones on low wages live in subsidised housing, or are the types who cram in to a small house together as working holiday types, or just live in plainly desperate conditions.
 
Upchuck said:
Poor people may live in inner zones, but do they have to make a regular commute to work and pay the current zonal tube fares? I think you would need those stats.

I am inclined to agree with PO that loads of people in inner zones on low wages live in subsidised housing, or are the types who cram in to a small house together as working holiday types, or just live in plainly desperate conditions.
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Well, as seeing most on here who live in Zones 1-3 live comfortably on the minimum wage, according to them, I don't know what I am moaning about? :confused:

Maybe I can move back to my home town of Stockwell on the £5.75ph I get from Tesco, seeing as I can't be employed in a regular office job at the minute.
 
Roadkill said:
I think the zonal system works pretty well really. I certainly can't see the point in scrapping it, because there doesn't seem to be a better alternative at present.
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I can think of an alternative - heavily subsidise tube travel from council tax & business rates within the zones it encompasses and have a low, flat fee for all travel, anywhere on the network. That way it'd be cheap & simple for everyone to use, the subsidies would effectively be means based and no one would be penalised for not being able to live near their place of work.
 
EastEnder said:
I can think of an alternative - heavily subsidise tube travel from council tax & business rates within the zones it encompasses and have a low, flat fee for all travel, anywhere on the network. That way it'd be cheap & simple for everyone to use, the subsidies would effectively be means based and no one would be penalised for not being able to live near their place of work.
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Well, that's the ideal solution, yes, but I can't see the tax hike needed to fund it going down very well.

Incidentally, you went by me at Old Street tube whilst I was waiting for a mate the other Friday evening. I did shout, but you had the commuter's, 'It's Friday evening and I want to get home quickly' focused look, and you shot past without noticing. :D
 
PacificOcean said:
Well, as seeing most on here who live in Zones 1-3 live comfortably on the minimum wage, according to them, I don't know what I am moaning about? :confused:

Maybe I can move back to my home town of Stockwell on the £5.75ph I get from Tesco, seeing as I can't be employed in a regular office job at the minute.
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I just don't believe someone on minimum wage could live alone comfortably in zones 1-3 on minimum wage unless it was in a mass share or a subsidised place.
 
PacificOcean said:
Well, as seeing most on here who live in Zones 1-3 live comfortably on the minimum wage, according to them, I don't know what I am moaning about? :confused:

Maybe I can move back to my home town of Stockwell on the £5.75ph I get from Tesco, seeing as I can't be employed in a regular office job at the minute.
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at tesco you'd be paid more if living in zone 2/3 (whatever stockwell is lol) though I'd think. I work in a pub for 5.92 and pay 350 all inclusive for a room in a nice flat 1 min from tube station (with no cockroaches anymore :D ). When I worked for Boots I got 6.52 cos it was 'in london' and that was in enfield.
 
live ALONE? as in rent a whole place to yourself? can you do that on minimum wage ANYWHERE?

and upchuck, you should believe it cos I've just told you about where I live! That's sharing a flat with 2 other people. nice big double room. our own garden.

Also, I know loads of people at my work who are living in pleasant shared houses which are not over crowded or subsidised or parental.
 
PacificOcean said:
I'm afraid the QI screens would flash at this point.

It's £5.75 ph wherever you are.
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OK so a tiny bit less than me.
FWIW I'm not even full time either, at the moment. I'm only doing about 25-30 hours.

You can afford to live in a nice shared house or flat in zone 2/3, you just have to put effort into finding it and prioritising spends etc.
 
My days of sharing are over unfortunately. Anyone can live in a shared place for little, but if you don't want that then you are, I believe, priced out of the market.
 
but is PO living alone now? on min. wage? I just can't see how they can afford to do that anywhere, never mind london, if not in 'subsidised' housing or with support from benefits or other people.
 
I live in a studio flat in Zone 3 and pay around £600/mth. I have lived here for 4 years and think I would struggle to find anything like this in a decent area in Zones 1-3 now, north of the river, where I feel safe walking home at night.
 
EastEnder said:
I can think of an alternative - heavily subsidise tube travel from council tax & business rates within the zones it encompasses and have a low, flat fee for all travel, anywhere on the network. That way it'd be cheap & simple for everyone to use, the subsidies would effectively be means based and no one would be penalised for not being able to live near their place of work.
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There are no zones that don't have the tube, so that would be 'hugely increase taxes for everyone in zones 1-6.'
 
but 'decent' area is besides the point in this discussion, surely. what people consider to be a 'decent' area is just a choice and preference. the transport thing only works on the basis that poor people are forced to the outer zones. I could decide that I was too delicate to live here if I wanted, but that would be a choice wouldn't it.
 
I don't get paid minimum wage tho. if I was paid minimum wage fuck knows where I would be living, but it certainly wouldn't be here. It would probably be on the outskirts of town sharing with strangers.
 
yeah because you'd be choosing not to live in one of these 'dives' you keep going on about. not being forced out because you couldn't afford anywhere to live, but because the affordable areas were not to your taste.
 
Yeah and that's fair enough, but that's not the same as being forced out of the inner zones, like the OP is talking about.
 
Upchuck said:
Setting aside my views on decent, I still think the OP is correct in what he's saying.
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So your opinion is that there are quite a lot of poor people in inner London, but they're living in either social housing or in really low-quality accommodation.

And those people should pay higher travel fares.

Rrrright.
 
I don't believe all of them are travellling on the tube. I imagine many of the people don't have to commute to work daily on the tube.
 
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