Good post. They talk up the 'success' of the min wage but it is rapidly becoming the average wage.
Get 'em out as quick as possible and hope that they can come back after a term with the scum like Harman, Brown, Darling, Smith etc etc gone.
Should Labour call our bluff?
- Thread starter jiggajagga
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Good post. They talk up the 'success' of the min wage but it is rapidly becoming the average wage.
Get 'em out as quick as possible and hope that they can come back after a term with the scum like Harman, Brown, Darling, Smith etc etc gone.
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
Again, I'm no lover of labour but had the tories remained in power in 1997 do you think even a minimum would even exist with the laissez-faire attitude they had and would the credit crunch not exist or would we be having another 'black' day?
As for the 'no vote' question. Is it not true that a no vote in any election tends to help the party in the lead at the polls?
If I was Labour I would ( and I dread the thought ) call a snap election today stating that to get our country through this 'global' problem needs a strong and experienced government and not led by a party of the rich who have caused all this.
I'm not saying labour would win but it would be a lot closer than people think.
As for the 'no vote' question. Is it not true that a no vote in any election tends to help the party in the lead at the polls?
If I was Labour I would ( and I dread the thought ) call a snap election today stating that to get our country through this 'global' problem needs a strong and experienced government and not led by a party of the rich who have caused all this.
I'm not saying labour would win but it would be a lot closer than people think.
_angel_
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How on earth is anyone meant to live on that without claiming some kind of benefit or living rent free? (Esp in London)
Being under 18 and on minimum wage doesn't bear thinking about.
What did we get from the Tories?
Interest rates of 15%, selling off of council houses ( where all this problem started ), greed is good attitude, wars for elections, Iraqi gun, Saudi arms deal, etc, etc
Give me a break mate.
Stop thinking of yourself for once in your life and grow up!!
LOL.
And New Labour have done excatly what about the above supposed wrongs ?
The difference between Tory and Labour voters is this. The Tory Party, by and large, does what its voters want it to do. The Labour Party does things that the majority of its voters claim they do not want it to do. But then still go and vote for them.
If anybody needs to grow up its Labour voters. Actually vote for what you truly believe in other than just being treated like disobediant puppys who get whacked with a Lady T glove puppet every time they start whining.
If you are gong to vote, you have to think about it tactically. All this broad brush "vote this Party everywhere" stuff is all very well, but does not deal with the real situation in constituencies. If you live in Brighton or Norwich South, your Green vote might just conceivably elect a useful Green MP. If you are in John McDonnell's constituency a Labour vote will elect somebody that many on here might have time for. If you live in Scotland or Wales your vote might elect an SNP or PC MP, of variable worth or use. For someone on the left a Labour vote in a safe Tory seat in Southern England is useless - you may as well vote with your conscience and vote for someone nearer your views, be they Green, Left, radical Lib Dem of the Norman Baker variety or whatever. At least this will send a message. The best result of the next election in the UK would probably be a hung parliament that resulted in some form of voting reform giving smaller parties a chance, but this does not seem likely at the moment.
Of course we can vote who we like, but the reality is that any of the likely governments will attack ordinary working people, their rights, liberties and living standards in various ways - most times this is what the ruling class demands of governments in crisis periods! So more important than discussing who you will vote for at the moment is organising in your workplace and community for resistance and defence - i.e. against fuel poverty, redundancies, pay cuts, service reductions, attacks on benefits etc -all of which are on the way.
Of course we can vote who we like, but the reality is that any of the likely governments will attack ordinary working people, their rights, liberties and living standards in various ways - most times this is what the ruling class demands of governments in crisis periods! So more important than discussing who you will vote for at the moment is organising in your workplace and community for resistance and defence - i.e. against fuel poverty, redundancies, pay cuts, service reductions, attacks on benefits etc -all of which are on the way.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
I honestly believe the claims of voter apathay that get kicked around would vanish the day after an election is held where people can vote "None of the above parties represent me"
Until then I'll always just write amusing doodles on ballot papers
How does voting 'none of the above' cure voter apathy ? If you are going to be apathetic about politics then do it properly and stay at home and slob out on the sofa.
But if you are going to go to all the trouble to go to your local voting station and then tick what is the apathetic option it just makes you an utter cunt.
_angel_
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Oh dear. Do you really think not wanting to vote for what's on offer makes you 'apathetic'. I love it when politicians try and blame people for not 'getting' their 'message'. When I get it loud and clear. The three main parties are not interested in my vote.
You are an idiot!!
I am no lover of New labour but at least we have min wage
Maternity leave, rights for temporary workers, etc, etc,
What did we get from the Tories?
Interest rates of 15%, selling off of council houses ( where all this problem started ), greed is good attitude, wars for elections, Iraqi gun, Saudi arms deal, etc, etc
Give me a break mate.
Stop thinking of yourself for once in your life and grow up!!
ah ..bless
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Well, most of the North Sea oil is gone now, so it's no longer a big deal really. Norway banked their oil revenue in a massive social fund that'll underwrite their pensions, education and health service for the forseeable future. Tony Benn had set up similar arrangements here, but one of the very first things Thatcher did as PM was have Nigel Lawson dissolve the British National Oil Corporation.
Then vote for somebody else. Or stand yourself. Or get involved with one of the three main parties and try and change things.
I hate to pull this one but people died to protect your right to vote and whilst I dont want it to be complusory I also hate this idea of having a 'none of the above' option. Its pure self-indulgence on the part of the person doing so.
_angel_
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Oh, I see, so you should be forced to vote for something you don't believe in? Not much point in democracy then. Pretty sure people didn't die so you had to vote something you don't agree with.
I'm not getting involved with the three shades of the same thing. You sound incredibly niave to be honest.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Or I dont want to vote for people who do not represent me, or be forced to vote for them
I want a true choice, letting the politicians know that I do not want anything to do with them should be a perfectley valid one
You might also want to check the meaning of Apathy out...
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Zomgz!
How ignorant of me, I think I'll vote for red party, I've always like red me... though I must say blue is right up there next to it
I cant do it, somebody help me!
How ignorant of me, I think I'll vote for red party, I've always like red me... though I must say blue is right up there next to it
I cant do it, somebody help me!
Well by not voting you do let them know you dont want anything to do with them.
Or do you think that by suddenly having the option of voting 'none of the above' that somehow they will change their minds ? Of course they wont. They will just laugh at you and think you twats. As will all right thinking people.
And I never said it should be complusory. But the choice of none of the above already exists by simply not voting.
_angel_
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"right thinking people" = you. More people don't vote than vote esp in local elections so actually, people who vote in a government are in an overall minority.
How would you deal with a system that asked you to vote for something you fundamentally disagreed with?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Except it doesnt really as instead of measuring disatisfaction with the political parties low turnout is mainly dismissed as voter apathy, with nothing done about it bar the big 3 pumping more money into advertising.
But the system allows choices. And if those standing dont represent you then stand yourself. Yes there has to be some criteria but when ever I have voted there has always been a pretty wide range of options available to me and I cannot ever recollect there ever being less than 5.
_angel_
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Ahhh the old 'stand yourself' option. Great if you are into public speaking, have people behind you and can afford to lose £1000 or so...
Honestly, if that's the best argument for the system now we're fucked....
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Given that a general election result is decided by a few thousands of swing voters in a few key marginals, and given that the political technology to precisely target those voters, analyse their key issues and to focus available resources with maximum efficiency to propagandise them while pretty much ignoring everybody else, has long been available to anyone with a sufficient number of dodgy millionaires to provide the necessary slush fund, it's hard to see how the current system can be said to represent anyone other than the dodgy millionaires in question.
So what would you have ? Political parties that you have to agree with in their entirity ?
British politics does give people a choice. You either exercise that choice by voting for one of the people standing or else you dont bother. Its really that simple.
_angel_
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No it's not 'don't bother' I think I put more thought into not voting last local election than most people put into voting. Clearly my vote was so unimportant that even finding out who was standing was pretty hard work... trying to find out what they stood for took even longer (the only electioneering materials came from the labour party, not one other bothered even sending flyers outlining what they stood for)
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Yay for choice and a free and fair democracy!
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I'd hazard a guess that you were not identified as a potential swing voter in a key marginal, and therefore both parties decided that you didn't matter to the overall result.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The electoral reform society recently reported that the number of swing voters in key marginals (i.e those effectively deciding the outcome of the GE) could be as low as 8000.
Take from this what you will, but BNP predicting and preparing for a November election. Its not going to get much better for Labour than this, and this woudl seem to be the best time for them to try to win
Asuume all left political parties are at actions stations for a snap election?
Asuume all left political parties are at actions stations for a snap election?
I would assume that they are at their normal action stations position which is aiming their weapons at their own feet as usual.
The big non mainstream winners next election will be the bnp sadly.
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