Should kids be streamed or not?

[LilMissHissyFit]

I don't know if anyone here has ever heard of Howard Gardner - he theorises that there are seven different types of intelligence:

Linguistic intelligence involves sensitivity to spoken and written language
Logical-mathematical intelligence consists of the capacity to analyze problems logically
Musical intelligence involves skill in the performance, composition, and appreciation of musical patterns.
Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence entails the potential of using one's whole body or parts of the body to solve problems.
Spatial intelligence involves the potential to recognize and use the patterns of wide space and more confined areas.
Interpersonal intelligence is concerned with the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations and desires of other people.
Intrapersonal intelligence entails the capacity to understand oneself

He believes that our educational system's reliance on merely the first two to teach our children fails them and that if we were to use a mix of teaching styles to address all types of intelligence, many less children would be dismissed as 'failures'.

More here

Thanks for that its very interesting
Ive read some stuff about these learning styles for the coaching I do and it really is effective when used in a sports setting.

Gmatthews: Dyelxia doesnt = lazy a failure to be able to learn in the way you ae being taught doesnt = lazy

Often a change of approach is needed but sadly while we have atttudes like yours teacher is right, lack of achievement = lazy or stupid on the part of the pupil nothing will change

 

[trashpony]

Glad you think so - I do too and it's something I use a lot in training.

Oh yeah - and LMHF - the only person I know who is really wealthy because he started his own company and then sold it - was written off when we were at school because he was so severly dyslexic. His parents fought and fought and eventually he got some kind of dispensation which overlooked his spelling in his exams and got a scolarship to Cambridge.

So don't give up

 

[radio_atomica]

Glad you think so - I do too and it's something I use a lot in training.

Oh yeah - and LMHF - the only person I know who is really wealthy because he started his own company and then sold it - was written off when we were at school because he was so severly dyslexic. His parents fought and fought and eventually he got some kind of dispensation which overlooked his spelling in his exams and got a scolarship to Cambridge.

So don't give up

Yeah, my boss is a bit dyslexic but he's the one who is the sole propriter of a (fairly) successful business in a town where they is hardly any private business and everyone I know works for the Local Authority in some capacity. It just means we have a checking system for outgoing documents - which all businesses should have anyway if they're working towards TQM.

 

[Gmart]

Gmatthews: Dyelxia doesnt = lazy a failure to be able to learn in the way you ae being taught doesnt = lazy

Once again you didn't take my advice and not start. You just WANT an argument don't you.

At the same time you gave me a good example of your own laziness which has nothing to do with your dyslexia. You missed out the 'r' in the word 'are', which you are quite able to spell, but which you couldn't be bothered to re-read your text and correct it.

Like i said people are lazy and the excuses are many and varied.


Meanwhile on the subject of streaming, i think that it is easy to confuse the problem with apathy in society and the lack of tradition in education, which leads to disruptive pupils. No streaming with motivated children has had success but that said i accept that Finland have a completely different system, though maybe we could learn?

 

[angelofthenorth]

Once again you didn't take my advice and not start. You just WANT an argument don't you.

At the same time you gave me a good example of your own laziness which has nothing to do with your dyslexia. You missed out the 'r' in the word 'are', which you are quite able to spell, but which you couldn't be bothered to re-read your text and correct it.

Like i said people are lazy and the excuses are many and varied.


Meanwhile on the subject of streaming, i think that it is easy to confuse the problem with apathy in society and the lack of tradition in education, which leads to disruptive pupils. No streaming with motivated children has had success but that said i accept that Finland have a completely different system, though maybe we could learn?

Duh typo ! There's no need to get like that!



I'm sure you're capable of capitalising the letter 'i' but you didn't..

 

[Dubversion]

I don't agree with streaming kids.

I'd rather download them





<astonished it's taken 36 posts for THAT gag )

 

[Gmart]

oooh

I'm sure you're capable of capitalising the letter 'i' but you didn't..

Like i say it's better not to start these personal attacks. So let's get on

Meanwhile there is no need to get distracted from the subject at hand ie should streaming be allowed in schools? Does it help all students? Or is it just a way to wheedle out the 'failures' so that a few choice expulsions can improve the schools league table status. Equality of opportunity has to be the aim here surely?

We need to look at incentives. My idea about the best teachers for the worst students won't work because the incentive for the teachers would be partly to perform worse. Not a good idea. But then again the private sector is already creaming off the best teachers and to some degree the best students.

Still this was covered in the private school thread here and summarised again at the education thread here so there's no need to be distracted.

 

[angelofthenorth]

I think sets for the most 'difficult' subjects are the only way forward. FWIW about private schools 'creaming' off the better able pupils, maybe that's an issue in London but there are scarcely any private schools here where I am and I don't know any one who went to one.

The high school I went to had a large number of barely literate pupils, they needed extra help (they didn't get any like, I don't think- but they needed it.) It's easy to see why children who can barely write might have a hard time of it in a class going too fast for them and then give up on the whole thing as a bad job.

I can't imagine how one teacher would be able to teach across such a spectrum of abilities successfully.

What you said about expulsion. I don't know if this is still the case (what with exclusions being harder and harder to obtain) but you really would have had to burn our school down to be chucked out. And not just tried, actually succeeded. No-one could have been hoyed out on lack of academic success alone.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Once again you didn't take my advice and not start. You just WANT an argument don't you.

At the same time you gave me a good example of your own laziness which has nothing to do with your dyslexia. You missed out the 'r' in the word 'are', which you are quite able to spell, but which you couldn't be bothered to re-read your text and correct it.

Like i said people are lazy and the excuses are many and varied.


Meanwhile on the subject of streaming, i think that it is easy to confuse the problem with apathy in society and the lack of tradition in education, which leads to disruptive pupils. No streaming with motivated children has had success but that said i accept that Finland have a completely different system, though maybe we could learn?

You really are quite a nasty person arent you?
Its not laziness, I simply dont 'see' where Ive made mistakes often until later( which is symptomatic of dyslexia, the dyslexic simplay cannot see whats wrong, it doesnt look right and often it isnt but you dont actually see why)
But since you have decided dyslexia= laziness I expect no better from you
This is what you did last time you engaged with me, you criticised the style of my posts and ordered me not to engage in my chosen line of argument becuase it didnt suit you.you refused repeatedly to answer a valid question put to you because it would be admitting that you hadnt really thought out your proposal and disliked being challenged on the viability of your sugestion.
You then used personal insults and ignorance of dyslexia to accuse me of having ill mannered children

How utterly charming you are

 

[scifisam]

Streaming is a pretty stupid idea to be honest, given the number of people who are good at English but bad at maths, or vice versa. However, setting can work. I like schools which have one 'express' set of the 'top' ability students for that subject, and the rest mixed ability. It makes it far easier to teach them what they actually need to learn, without lumping all the lowest achievers in together. That's for either KS4 or from year 8 at the earliest.

The idea of streaming in primary school disturbs me. My daughter's school does set maths and literacy, in a way; in year 5 the students with the lowest literacy/numeracy levels will be joined by students from year 4, while the highest ability students will go off to work with year 6. This seems to work in this particular school, because it's so small and so many of the pupils attend the afterschool club that they spend quite a bit of time with children from other year groups, so it doesn't stand out to them.

Just to add, I don't think you can just say 'oh no streaming works for the Finnish schools so lets have that over here.'

Finland is a tiny country with a pretty homogenous society and excellent standards of living across the board. An education system which works there might work in some parts of the UK, but not in most. Comparing Finland to, say, the East End of London is naieve at best. It does have a lot going for it, but then so do a lot of countries' education systems.

Guardian article on the subject.